The Nines on BitTorrent
Since well before our Sundance debut last year, I’ve been curious-slash-paranoid about when The Nines would start showing up on the BitTorrent trackers, the online repository of pirated movies and a few legitimate wares.
It was inevitable that the movie would get bootlegged at some point. The timing was the delicate issue. If it showed up before Sundance, some distributors might be frightened off (why spend x dollars when people are already watching it for free?). If it showed up online before our theatrical release, we could anticipate a hit in ticket sales, and a tougher time selling it overseas.
So for a while, I was checking every day. And nothing.
But yesterday, my Google News Alert feed showed the inevitable had come to pass: there was a DVD rip of The Nines online. Given the subtitles attached (Spanish and French), it was almost certainly the North American retail release, which I haven’t even held in my hands yet.1
I haven’t downloaded or watched the rip, but I have gotten three emails in the last 24 hours which began, “I recently saw The Nines…”
So it’s out there.
And that’s okay. Not “okay” in the sense of “legal” or “right.” But okay in the sense of c’est la vie. People are going to watch the pirated version, and there’s nothing I can do about it. Sony, Interpol and the MPAA will do their best, but as the guy who made the movie, I honestly want people to see the movie. If the only way you’re going to watch The Nines is illegally, so be it.
In fact, for a writer/director, there’s not a meaningful financial difference between someone watching an illegal download and getting it from Netflix, which distributes a limited number of discs to a large audience. Discuss.
But as the director, there are some good reasons to steer you towards the physical disc once it comes out on January 29th.
→ It has a ton of the usual special features: two audio commentaries, a making-of, gallery, deleted scenes (with commentary), and a bunch of Easter eggs.
→ It has one thing I’ve never seen before. For the opening sequence, you can see the script scroll by in the upper half of the screen, matched up to the movie and the storyboards for each shot. It’s a lot to process at once — you’ll probably need to watch it a few times — but it’s very cool.
→ You can loan a DVD, without passing along that troubling knowledge that you’ve done something illicit.
→ If you’re seen buying (or renting) The Nines, you’ll immediately identify yourself as someone drawn to challenging, divisive movies. So make sure to put it at the top of the stack as you slide it across the counter.
→ Hidden in five DVD cases are magical golden tickets.2
But if these reasons and/or your conscience doesn’t persuade you, it’s not hard to find The Nines online. And I won’t think less of you. Probably.
- We’ve had plain DVD screeners available for months, mostly for journalists and folks in the industry. But they don’t have subtitles, which is why I strongly suspect this comes from the official disc. ↩
- This is not true. ↩
Articles
January 15th, 2008 at 3:35 pm
I’ve not seen many pirated .avi files with a choice of subtitles, which leads me to think that this torrent could be a disk image of the entire DVD. Thus, including all the special features. Depends on how big the d/l is and if the disc is dual or single layered.
The craptacular thing of it all, is that I’d wager a huge proportion of these rips come from somewhere along the chain from the studio through the post house through the DVD production house. And so whatever copyright protection they could think of, wouldn’t be applied until the end of the DVD production line. Meaning they probably didn’t have to circumvent it at all.
I may have seen a few pirated movies in college, but ever since I realized that film is meant to be 70ft wide directly in front of your face, I prefer to watch them that way.
Special features sell me on buying the DVD instead of buying a download, but the key aspect of the movie going experience is well… going to the movies. And sitting with a possibly loud and annoying group of strangers in a dark auditorium while watching the film flicker away completely encompassing your field of vision.
Also, nice attitude about it. Though, not like there’s much being angry about it could do for you.
January 15th, 2008 at 3:48 pm
John, your magnanimity is laudable, but you really should be more outraged. Just because it’s only pennies, or fractions of pennies, out of your pocket doesn’t mean it’s not stealing. I mean, you’re on strike for the noble cause of a fair shake that involves, well, pennies.
I realize that torrents are the wave of the future, as soon as someone figures out a legit business model, but theft is theft. Someone made the conscious decision to rip your movie and make it available. It’s simply wrong.
Now, I say this as someone who has, er, availed myself of a few MP3s and such, but I never fool myself into thinking it’s right. It’s just convenient. I won’t plead not guilty.
And I’m also sending this from my late parents’ condo where one of their retiree neighbors has an unsecured wireless connection. But still…
Thanks for the site,
DN
January 15th, 2008 at 3:48 pm
John - How involved were you in the design of the DVD/poster artwork?
January 15th, 2008 at 3:58 pm
yeah not much you can do about getting mad at people for d/l’ing it. Just have to make sure that people that would steal a movie like this aren’t under the impression they should in any way be involved in the movie business. Anyone planning on using the business as an outlet for creativity, or just as a profession, should also be interested in make the business better. Purchasing movies like this accomplishes that like FEW other things can. Even though it’ll have little effect on a particular person, it was a huge effect on what movies Hollywood continues to back.
And not like if people d/l creative movies NONE will be made, but w/ everyone that doesn’t get purchased and a little kickback to the studio, it’ll just get a tad bit harder to get the next one made, just one small step in the wrong direction.
as I’m stepping off the soapbox one last thing… plz for the love of god, if you d/l this, dont actually attend movies like National Treasure in the theatre and give movies like that your money and shaft the good stuff. I dont know, I’m prolly a hypocrit that should stfu… but i just think the studios need to know that movies like this are what we want to be inundated with, not the bullshit (vulgar?) that’s usually in the theatre.
January 15th, 2008 at 4:11 pm
I’m not saying distributors will actually get this, but if your movie’s getting downloaded, that means people are watching it. People have zero-cost options and they choose to watch your movie, it’s better to have people watching it than not. Harvard economists have found that for all but the biggest hits illegal downloads actually increase CD sales. You’d probably find a similar dynamic at work with movies if the research were to happen.
January 15th, 2008 at 4:17 pm
If people like the movie they buy the dvd. It doesn’t matter if they watched the pirate version or not. Watching a shared version allows you to weed out the garbage and not waste your money. Many small films are “leaked” to create buzz. Something like Man From earth did benefit from a leaked torrent. I’m surprised more film makers do not release a slightly crippled version, say surround sound not dd5.1 or dts, for filesharing. Then release the full blown dvd for collectors.
January 15th, 2008 at 4:20 pm
I can’t wait to see The Nines and read the script (stored on my harddrive for reading when I’ve seen the film!).
Since I live in Sweden and wouldn’t be able to watch The Nines for quite some time I’m pretty tempted to download it, but either way I’m buying the DVD as soon as it is available as I always do. I greatly appreciate commentaries and behind the scenes featurettes and am learning a lot from them. Also, it feels good to support the moviemakers.
The real problem for me is the time difference between the release of a movie in different countries. In today’s international world it feels unfair to wait several months to see a movie just because I live in Europe when logistically the release dates could be much closer.
January 15th, 2008 at 4:33 pm
John, As an aspiring screenwriter I have very mixed feelings about this subject. I must admit I do download pirated movies sometimes. Of course If (or should I say when) my livelihood depends on people paying to watch movies I have written then of course I may feel differently about the subject which of course would make me a hypocrite. But, I do buy DVD’s of the movies I like so I treat pirate movies as more of a try as you buy kind of service and that goes someway to appease my guilt over this.
I happen to live in a country that is sometimes painfully behind the US on releases, very slow, and as a huge movie fan who relies on so many US based websites for my movie news being as much as 6 months behind on the released sucks, the fact that most of these movies are available as a download makes it very hard to resist.
But (and listen studios you may learn something!) for decent movies it has nothing to do with cost, I do not download because they are free - I download because they are available - Huge difference! Make the movies I want to see available to me now and I will pay for them, leave me waiting then the temptation becomes too great. Of course I do not buy DVD’s of every movie I download, I am not rich enough for one, but mainly because most of the movies I watch suck and are not worth my $20! Another way for Hollywood to encourage more people to pay for movies is to stop making such garbage.
At the end of the day I think the studios have been really slow to react to the changes that the Internet has made to the way people watch movies, they did not want change and therefore thought if they resisted change it would not happen. Problem is the change came and they were left out and now they seem to spend most of their time crying about it instead of tackling the problem head on. This has links to the writers strike, The studio’s claiming there is no money in Internet downloads, they have only got themselves to blame for that and should settle with the writers anyway because if they had any sense in the first place they would have developed this market themselves and now would be raking in the rewards.
Anyway, I loved The Nines, great work! And yes I am buying the DVD as soon as it is released as I think I will be returning to that movie a few times.
Thanks
January 15th, 2008 at 4:43 pm
Already got it in my Netflix queue. Even though The Nines comes out on the 29th, Netflix can ship it on the 28th, so I try to time my returns accordingly to avoid a Long Wait.
The strike got me thinking, will you get any residuals if I rent from Netflix/Blockbuster? Or do you only get residuals on the copies Netflix/Blockbuster purchase?
January 15th, 2008 at 4:49 pm
Sorry, just an addition to my previous post, but when exactly is The Nines being released in Australia? I can not find any release information at all! I don’t think it even had a cinema release over here did it?
This highlights my point exactly, legally there seems to be no possible way I can watch this movie anyway (and for those in the US, no none of the legal download services such as netflix, itunes etc.. work outside the US).
It is a crazy situation.
January 15th, 2008 at 4:59 pm
im with Andres… Its kinda tempting to get it… I guess there isnt an australian release huh john?… and i have no idea when the DVD will come out, if at all… Also essentially im gonna have to buy it now, most DVD store around here never stock anything interesting or hard to get… I got made to feel like an idiot cause i asked for “the fountain” for fecks sake!… come on!
Also dont just assume that it kills your sales… I know plenty of people who downloaded arrested development or children of god, mostly cause they were so disrespected by australian TV/Cinemas and they went on to by it… “the Nines” sounds like it would fit into the “small-obsessed fan base” so i think your download/purchase rate will be higher then most… From another point of view, this is exactly whats wrong with the film industry… Fans all around the world, already discussing and anticipating, but then some (america) get the product first and it damages the interest as well as the surprise of the story because you get it early… In australia this season we have “fast tracked” shows, less then a week after they come out in the stated, which must purely be to stop us downloading…
I really think we are at the point were if u offered a download of the movie on your site (for a price), everyone would GREATLY appreciate it and u would probably make more… and then i could go and discuss it with online fans, without getting it spoiled to hell (like lost, heroes, sixth sense, got know how many others)… Distributors need to get up with where the world is at now!
January 15th, 2008 at 5:15 pm
Im with Andres… its very tempting to get it due to the uncertainty of the release here in australia… I guess it didnt have a cinema release… Also i guess now i will have to buy it… most DVD stores here wont get it… I got laughed at when i asked about “the Fountain” for fecks sake… Come on!!
Dont be so sure that it kills your sales too, I know plenty of people who downloaded arrested development or children of god because of the disrespect australian TV/cinemas gave them… but most of them went on to buy them when available… “the nines” feels like it would fit into this category with a “small-obsessed” fan base… so i think your download/purchase rate would be higher then most… This is exactly whats wrong with the industry at the moment… We all live in a global community, discussing things online but the US gets the stuff sooner, so us overseas cant discuss without spoiling the show… it get very frustrating… especially when u wait almost a year at times… TV stations here are now “fast tracking” with less then a week in between… purely to stop downloaders… If there was anyway that you could just put a download up yourself, on this site (with a fee) thats the best thing to do… most people who come here are fans and would be more then willing to pay… plus we wouldnt feel so out of the loop, like we are just visiting the real world… I think you would probably make more too…
January 15th, 2008 at 5:17 pm
@John (#1):
Yup, there probably is a complete rip of the DVD out there, with special features. By its size, the file I saw on one site was pretty clearly a compressed version of the movie only.
@Lane (#3):
Good question, and I’ll address it in a post soon. Short answer: pretty involved.
@Michael (#9):
The writer doesn’t get residuals for a rental from Blockbuster, or Netflix, or anything like that. Internet rentals (like what Apple announced today) are a big sticking point in the ongoing WGA strike. I have no idea how/if the Netflix on-demand feature is accounted.
@GM (#10):
The movie has sold in Australia, with a theatrical deal, but I don’t know a date. I’ll check.
January 15th, 2008 at 5:34 pm
Damn Australia. I think The Nines is a perfect example of what is wrong here. It has been sold, it has a theatrical deal, yet the DVD will probably come out in America before we even get to see it. I hate that.
January 15th, 2008 at 6:09 pm
I’m with GM on this. It really is a studio problem for not releasing films/tv shows world wide at the same time.
Now for me, personally, I don’t have much to worry about. I live in Canada and get the movies at the same time as the US. Same with TV shows when the air… The problem is after that.
Let me use the TV show Lost as an example.
I bought an Video I-Pod so I could download and watch TV shows on my commute to and from work, because I can’t always catch them a night when they play and I don’t own a VCR any more to tape them. And I don’t mind paying $2.99 an episode to buy them. In fact I’d be happy to pay and support the shows I love. Especially with a show like Lost which you can’t miss and episode of with out getting, well, Lost.
But… I go to I-Tunes and find out that I can’t buy the Lost episodes here in Canada, you can only buy them in the USA. So if I miss and episode of Lost on TV, and I can’t buy it on-line, then what am I suppose to reasonably do? Wait 9-10 months for it to come out in the DVD boxed set, (since they don’t run reruns anymore) before I start watching the series again?
Or do I go on-line and in 1 hour have it for free?
If the studio made the the shows available on-line to buy everywhere at the same time as they do in the US then I would buy it. But I am not going to wait 9 months to buy a and watch a series just because I had to stay late at work on night.
January 15th, 2008 at 6:27 pm
I think the biggest issue is that piracy is just so convenient nowadays. It is far easier to download a movie then it is to rent the DVD. There are no restrictions. With a pirated movie you can store it in a multitude of ways, stream it to media centers hooked up to your tv, and archive the movie on a home server. This underscores the need for studios to get into the paid download business– but without restrictive digital rights management. I have no time for that. While I am more then willing to pay for a movie, I have little patience for the restrictions imposed by DRM. Of course this does not make it right.
For TV the situation in even worse. In my location (western Canada), high quality HDTV rips of shows are posted hours before they air in my area. The shows have already been prepackaged, quite often with the original surround sound stream, and commercials stripped. While I understand the role of ads in this business, the pirated media has become a significantly more attractive product.
This just shows how archaic the current distribution system has become. The Internet is the future for digital distribution and I am fully supportive of all the members of WGA in the strike.
John, while I have downloaded The Nines, I am planning to buy the DVD as soon as it is available. Good work!
January 15th, 2008 at 7:24 pm
“If you’re seen buying (or renting) The Nines, you’ll immediately identify yourself as someone drawn to challenging, divisive movies. So make sure to put it at the top of the stack as you slide it across the counter.”
I’m sure the semi-conscious teenager behind the counter at Blockbuster will be way impressed.
You know, I have been reading this great blog for a while now, and you have been very generous with your time and knowledge of screen writing/the industry. The least I could do is buy a copy of the DVD.
January 15th, 2008 at 8:22 pm
I just saw the Nines tonight. And I have the movie on pre-order from Amazon, so as far as I’m concerned, I’m getting the best of both worlds.
It was everything I thought it would be. I can’t believe what a fine actor Ryan Reynolds has turned out to be. And as a non-Gilmore-Girls watcher, I’d never even heard of Melissa McCarthy, but she was wonderful as well. Hope David is always good, so no surprise there.
In a film like this, the first half is the best half — I just love the unraveling of a mystery. But the second half is real solid, too, so big kudos. It’s a hell of a movie, and I really dig the metaphors.
January 15th, 2008 at 8:46 pm
i saw the debut of “the nines” at sundance last year. it is definitely a film you need to view in the theater. …and you need to see it nine times because you will most definitely miss something brilliant the first eight times. i cannot wait until january 29th nor “hancock” for that matter! =)
January 15th, 2008 at 8:55 pm
Bit Torrents and online bootlegging in general are sucking the life blood out of media sales faster than a whore on dollar night. That being said, I like the way John is handling it, he didn’t take it too seriously but he didn’t give us a link to the torrent either. He simply listed all the reasons to go out and buy it instead of stealing the money from his wallet and bread from his table.
January 15th, 2008 at 11:26 pm
Mallet,
The reason very few programs (other than Canadian) are available on iTunes Canada Store is because there is a question about who exactly should profit from it. The Major US networks don’t actually broadcast their shows here. Canadian networks do. Mostly simulcasted. Even if you watch your show on ABC, it’s actually being broadcasted by a Canadian network. The Canadian networks have a deal to broadcast the shows on television, often simulcasted, but distributing them is a whole different area. When it was simply on DVD, it was usually months after the show aired, so there was never any question of competition. But with iTunes you can buy the show the day after it aired, which means you don’t actually have to watch it on television (broadcasted by the Canadian Network). Obviously there are some issues to work out. Take a look at the writers strike to get an idea of how much these companies want to share…
January 16th, 2008 at 1:15 am
Lost is a great example… I got into torrenting shows cause one week on australian TV they opened the hatch… then i went online and realised that the NEXT WEEK i could download it and see what was in the hatch a yr earlier… things are getting better… (PS i own Lost on DVD now…)
PS … sucks u get nothing for rentals…
January 16th, 2008 at 3:16 am
John,
My name is Daniel Ojanlatva and I would really love for you to see a swedish film I´ve written called “Frostbitten” since there is a scene from “GO” that really inspired a scene in it. The scene contains a small dog, verbally threatening a young man. This is from me finding the the cat-scene in GO to be hysterically funny. And I just found out that you wrote it.
Now, Im sure there are ways for you to get the film. You could always downloa…hey wait theres Magnus, the producer of Frostbitten. Wonder what he wa….what? ….no I was just…let go of me!
…..yeeaaaarhghh!
January 16th, 2008 at 3:40 am
You know.. THe first few comments are so old fashioned. It’s stealing , blah blah blah..
And just for them, and others that think torrenting is stealing, I will not buy, watch or mention this movie to anyone. Just as if it wasn’t available on torrent.
You see, I wouldn’t have heard about this if it weren’t for the torrent leak.
But just to keep all you copyright oldies happy this one time. This movie will not be even heard of or seen by me.
It’s a shame though, the director does need to be commended for his views on the leak.
January 16th, 2008 at 4:13 am
Hey John, I just wanted to say that even though I fully intend on downloading your movie as soon as I can, I also want you to know that I will be seeing it at my local Dendy Cinema as well because from everything I’ve heard so far it is absolutely amazing. I just can’t wait that long to see it! I live in Australia and to my knowledge it hasn’t started showing here yet. I’m a film student myself so I feel maybe just a little bad knowing that you worked really bloody hard to make this film and I’m going to download it instead of buying it. So I had to let you know that yes, I am going to contribute to illegal downloads, but I’m also going to pay to see it, because I believe all truly awesome films deserve to be seen on the big screen.
January 16th, 2008 at 4:32 am
I honestly wonder.
Who would download crappy 640X480 avi files of the next big cinema hit if theater tickets were to cost 5 bucks instead of 10? If Dvds were to cost 5 bucks instead of 20? If theater releases were simultaneous worldwide? If Dvd releases were simultaneous worldwide? Since it doesnt cost anything to the people who wrote & made the film since their residuals are kept so low? (if your mind just clicked though, bear with me to the end of this post)
Long story short, would major studios suffer so much piracy if they hadnt attempted to maximize their benefits with such behaviours as the 4 above quoted?
-”oh my God a theater ticket/DVD for 5 bucks? Do you know how much it does cost to do a movie nowadays?” - I sure do. And it s way too much. A good story doesnt cost 40 to 200 millions dollars. bankable stars necessity to secure the investment does. Hudge advertisement campain hiding the bad quality of the movie does. Groundbreaking SFX -for the same sake- does. Greed of the majors ‘ share holders prefering one sure hit than 40 riskier & cheaper movies does.”
two more facts: - creativity in nowadays cinema suffer from the influence of yes men graduated in business schools who thus know nothing about story telling but got into movie business because its big figures. Of course they get touchy on producing original stories and prefer old receipts because of the huge investment. Lower the figures by cutting the dvd/theater price, they ll get back into selling cars & chemicals, and the real passionates will take the wheel back, working their a** off to find the next high concept. - Anyway, what does make the more money between those two strategies: making one sure 15$ DVD sale to the wealthier part of the potential market & the rest of them will burn/download it, or 4 almost sure 5$ DVD sale to the entire potential market & one die hard burner/downloader?
Second one? You ve just earned 5$!
January 16th, 2008 at 4:54 am
A very respectable stance, I must say.
I wonder if it is a coincidence that people involved in the production of movies which seem to be highly acclaimed are the ones who aren’t nearly as against people sharing their movies as their big Hollywood ultra-expensive mega-blockbuster counterparts.
Anyway, I love it - you guys are the ones that deserve to benefit from sharing.
January 16th, 2008 at 6:40 am
Hey John,
Greetings from Kingston Ontario Canada. The Nines didn’t make it to Kingston, so I’ll be sure to pick it up on 29th. I love that feature of the screenplay appearing on screen. Score one for DVD! very cool!
As I’m working on my first,”real” screenplay since school, “Cooper’s Dog” I’m finding your site extremely useful. Thank you very much!
Since I can’t be down there on the line, with every word I write on my script, my thoughts are with you guys.
By the way, my fiance’s niece, Emily loves Charlie and the Chocolate Factory. Our running joke is,”You’re Weird.”
Take care John,
Mark Gauthier
January 16th, 2008 at 7:57 am
And I’m also sending this from my late parents’ condo where one of their retiree neighbors has an unsecured wireless connection. But still…
I’d say, you aren’t stealing any wifi — they are openly broadcasting. If they wanted, WEP is easy to set up.
(But then, if you don’t tell them…)
January 16th, 2008 at 8:51 am
John, could you, please, check if “The Nines” was sold to Poland? I was unable to find any reliable information about cinematic premiere, yet alone DVD release date for my country.
I don’t know why in the States people prefer torrents, but in many countries only mainstream productions are available. In the US you can see most of the movies in cinemas; tv-series on your small screen. Then you can decide to buy the DVDs with the movies/series that you enjoy.
I’ve bought “Firefly” from UK’s Amazon, but this series has never been broadcasted in my country. So, without the online help i would miss a great position, because not all people can afford buying everything they think they may like (and via torrents and such they can sample it and decide). The same was with “Arrested Development”.
I’m not an impatient man, and movies were made to be seen in cinemas, so I can wait for the premiere.. but if there will be none?
Besides, my opinion on the subject is this: people that do not buy DVD and/or do not go to movie theathers because they watch pirated version - wouldn’t buy those materials even if they hadn’t had access to the pirated version;
January 16th, 2008 at 9:19 am
I thought it would be interesting to post a reply to this thread. I downloaded “The Nines” and watched it last night. I am not your typical “fan” because I have not even heard of this movie. Its been less than 24 hours since watching, and I feel like I am obsessed with the characters and story! I am now excited to watch it again because I really want to further my understanding of the story (stories?).
I truely believe that the John August can only benefit from the leaked DVDRip. Your film will likely reach 10x the number of viewers because of this, and that will only help generate even more noise (publicity) about the film. The more people who talk about your film, the more DVDs you will sell.
This morning I have already talked to 10 different co-workers about your film. None of them have heard of it, but all are now at least curious about it
January 16th, 2008 at 9:40 am
Hi,
I’m not really interested in a dvd with extra’s on it and stuff, but I really want to see the movie. I’ll probably download it and not buy the dvd, I don’t know yet. Maybe i’ll watch it in a theatre, but theatres are annoying.
I’d really appreciate it though if you might setup a paypal account or something, so people who downloaded the movie can wire you money. It’s a way of paying for something you made, without distributors in between, since in this modern age, distribution is free. Ofcourse a larger scale system must be devised, since how would I be able to bay the actors and such… Even digital value is worthless, since it can be duplicated to infinity. But pirates aren’t people who sit on their money. (Atleast not all of them ;).)
Maybe I’m being a bit utopic, but i’d really like to move towards a society where people pay out of gratitude, and not pay to fill the pockets of the rich CEO’s.
Just out of curiosity? How many percentage do you get per dvd that get’s sold?
Greetings.
PS. I am person who strives to a new entertainment society where some people get millions and others get some crappy left overs. Equality.
January 16th, 2008 at 9:54 am
John, I knew when your movie came to Austin I had to see it. I’d seen a YouTube preview posted on some movie blog or another and imagined this to be exactly the kind of flick I would make, were I able and inclined to do so. So when the tix went on sale and I bought them, I was jazzed. Unfortunately, I wasn’t able to get off work and couldn’t attend the screening at the Alamo. Given that indie movie DVD releases can come sometimes years after the movie is actually completed, I became rather bummed that day. So when it popped up online a few nights ago, I jumped at the chance. Honestly, I do pirate flicks. I have a Netflix subscription that I’m too lazy to use (sad, yes, I know, but also true), and a surprisingly fast connection, so I find it easier to just download what I want when I’m at work and come home and watch wonderful IPs such as this. And if I like it, then I’ll buy it. Man, this is not gonna be a cheap span. I’m already planning on expanding my DVD collection to include The Nines, Weirdsville, Harold & Kumar (just saw it recently), Battlestar Season 3, and Sunshine. Which, sadly, is the only one I can get on Blu-ray! Bah humbug, I sez.
P.S.—No, I’ve not seen a full DVD-9 version yet, so it was just the movie, sans any extras whatsoever other than the menu. Oh, and your commentary, it did have that on it. Yes, it did appear to be the retail US release.
P.P.S.—I already pre-ordered it.
P.S.L.M.N.O.P.X.Y.Z—The Nines freakin’ rocks. I can’t wait to get the extras into my eager and waiting paws. Thank you for making this movie.
January 16th, 2008 at 11:01 am
Hey John,
I’ve got a couple points. A few postings ago, you talked about the possibilities that blu-ray and HDDVD present in terms of content for viewers. The feature that you mentioned on the forthcoming ‘Nines’ DVD regarding having the script/storyboard and movie on at the same time is exactly the kind of feature I’d like to see on blu-ray disks. Yes, you managed to fit it on your conventional DVD, but with Blu-ray, it should be doable for all releases.
That’s a question I have. How much are we pushing the capacity of existing DVDs? Did you have to comprimise on what you wanted on your disk due to size limitations?
Also, to wade in on the piracy debate, a few posters have mentioned how easy it is to bit-torrent and how hard it is to wait for the DVD, plus how costly movies are generally. I think that’s the key.
Now, I don’t pirate media, mostly due to quality issues rather than a strong moral stance, but I do wish that studios would step up to the plate with easy downloads and cheaper product. I think itunes has given them a kick in the butt, but they could make across-the-board improvements with technology that’s already out there.
Anyway, my two cents.
January 16th, 2008 at 11:51 am
I know it’s inevitable and it’s hard to trace it back… but you just take the rough with the smooth? This doesn’t make any sense to me right now… I mean, you’re striking for a better deal, but this is just a “c’est la vie”-thing?
January 16th, 2008 at 12:15 pm
I work for a technology company that streams music and video for artists as a promotional tool, rather than distribution. A lot of these questions have been going through my head for years now.
The existence of a DVD rip is just a fact of life. Some guy somewhere along the distribution chain gets to feel like a hero for a day, and in exchange the film shows up immediately. I imagine the only reason you went out of your way to mention it, John, was that it’s a personal film which was your feature debut as a director.
So, to speak to that, having looked at the data, you’re likely not directly financially harmed by bootlegging. In the music industry, at least, bootlegging has been shown to been shown to be helpful in the medium term.
But I think bootlegging as it currently occurs is damaging to us as a culture. This war between the consumer fringe (who consider piracy tantamount to moral obligation, to the point where a small film like The Nines is available via torrent before it’s DVD release) and the media industry (who relentlessly litigate rather than innovate, while lobbying for draconian changes to copyright law) is damaging to everyone. The industry hemorrhages money to control something that simply cannot be stopped, and the consumers respond with a degrading respect for the link between an artist and his creation.
Larry Lessig in his talk at TED said all of these things better than I, but we’re soon to face a generation who won’t even consider John August in passing before pirating a movie - they’ll only think of generic Corporate America, for which they have no respect, and I think both sides are culpable for that.
January 16th, 2008 at 1:27 pm
we’re soon to face a generation who won’t even consider John August in passing before pirating a movie - they’ll only think of generic Corporate America, for which they have no respect.
That my sir has been since Gen X , and now Gen Y. And the next if coming.
I just would like the director to know, I would like to donate to him directly for this creation. I don’t want some rich fatcat in the middle taking the cash so he can support his cocaine habit.
How about setting up a donate button? Infast I think torrents today should have some kind of ” you liked it? donate ” feature, and the money goes directly to the person who created it.
January 16th, 2008 at 3:25 pm
First, let me state straightaway that I DO NOT pirate movies and in fact have a huuuge DVD collection.
But I read an interesting article that talks about the effects of bittorrent and things like it on unreleased media (I don’t agree with everything, but at least read the first couple paragraphs). Our natural assumption is “more pirates = less legit viewers”. But the article mentions an example of how a pirated release actually helped increase viewership, or at the very least didn’t seem to pull it down.
In October 2004, the new Battlestar Galactica aired its premier episode in the UK. It was set to release in the US the following January, but the episode was almost immediately leaked via bittorrent. One would assume that because of this, the US premier would suffer in a big way. And yet the first episode had the biggest viewership the SciFi channel had ever seen, and it’s only grown from there.
Now that’s not to say that piracy helps increase sales in every instance, but I think there is something to be said for the word-of-mouth advertising you can create when these people get their hands on something and start telling everyone they know about it. This is especially true for properties with no gigantic advertising campaign or anything like that. Certainly some people will just watch it and not buy it, but I think there is a substantial number of people who WILL pick it up because of it. Combine that with ample special features that get lost in the bittorrent stream, and I really don’t think The Nines has a whole lot to worry about in that arena.
January 16th, 2008 at 4:03 pm
I pre-ordered The Nines & I plan to wait until I get it in the mail to watch it. It must be frustrating though, to see download figures as high as they are. I just checked on a site & your movie has been downloaded over 500 times in the past 24 hours. Roughly $12,000 that wont be spent. This is just from one site. I was wondering, John, are these figures taken into consideration when it comes to someone’s early career? Writer/Director Kevin Smith has said (I’m paraphrasing here) that its fine if your movie does shitty in the theaters, it’s the dvd sales that really matter. In your opinion, could illegal downloading prevent new writers/directors from really breaking into the Hollywood scene because of poor dvd sales? Well, I wish you the best of luck with your movies official release & your next film, Hancock. As a side note, you misspelled ’strike’ in your #13 post answer to Michael. Take care.
January 16th, 2008 at 4:27 pm
Another potential benefit of someone stealing a movie is that if they like it, they are going to tell people. Not only people, but very likely people that aren’t pirates themselves. So if I watch a movie for free and I liked it, I’m going to tell my friends to check it out. Now, most of them don’t even know what BitTorrent is, so they’re going to go see it in theaters or rentbuy it on DVD. Had I not downloaded it in the first place, I may never have even heard of it, and thus neither would my friends. So more people are seeing it, and more money is being made. A win-win-win situation.
Looking up, it appears I’m agreeing with Phoenix.
January 16th, 2008 at 5:59 pm
I don’t care how old-fashioned I sound…watching pirated films is illegal and I don’t care for it one bit. Don’t do it, won’t do it. And before you ask, no I don’t download music off the internet either. And I don’t burn stuff on my computer. If I think I might like something enough, I’ll take a risk on buying the CD.
All those justifying it - keep talking. Maybe one day you will actually convince yourself you’re not doing anything wrong. Not me.
And for those in Australia who say they have no choice - give me a break. Like waiting six months to see something is some kind of awful ordeal. If you need to see it faster, buy a multi-regional DVD player and buy the US DVD on Amazon. And if you can’t afford to do this - then suck it up and wait until it has an Australian release.
Any aspiring screenwriter who has no problem with illegal downloads needs a good kick in the arse.
January 16th, 2008 at 6:07 pm
[quote]I just checked on a site & your movie has been downloaded over 500 times in the past 24 hours. Roughly $12,000 that wont be spent.[/quote]
That’s really not very accurate.
You have two major things to think about there:
1) How many people who are pirating it are doing so instead of buying it?
2) How many people who buy it did so because they pirated it earlier, and wouldn’t have bought it if they didn’t pirate it?
I’m sure there are plenty of people in each group. The thing is, how does it then balance out, and does quality of the movie matter more? Yes, quality of the movie does matter more. Offline marketing matters the most to get notoriety, but online, you for the most part need to create good art, and from all I have heard about this movie, it is certainly that. Not all good movies will gain notoriety online, and not all movies with notoriety online are good (though good is subjective, certainly) - but there is certainly a strong correlation.
By the way, I have the pirated DVD - the extras are cut out, but there are still links to the extras in the menu (but they don’t go anywhere).
January 16th, 2008 at 7:39 pm
I don’t care if there are still people that think downloading is illegal or not.
This is a moral judgment, and times have changed and morals change.
Copyright hasn’t been around since the dawn of artistic expression. Real artists will survive, con artists will fade away. Music CD’s are dead and gone. Stop trying to sell this rubbish any longer.
John, you deserve to be commended. You sound like a true artists. One who is proud of your work, and you want people to see it. This is what art is about.
Now, I will continue to pirate. But, I also want to be able to pay the artists whos work I like. Please work with your fellow artists on a system where people can do this.
January 16th, 2008 at 8:02 pm
Oh for crap’s sake:
http://tinyurl.com/29rdlb
January 16th, 2008 at 11:26 pm
Dominic,
I just want you to think about something before you reply….
Have you at any time borrowed a CD, Book or DVD/Video from anyone else you know? Have you at any time lent a CD, Book or DVD/Video to anyone else you know?
If your answer to any of the above is no then your comment is valid and I will keep it in mind next time I go to download a movie. If your answer is yes then do you not lay awake at night worrying about depriving the copyright holder of extra revenue?
I do not use filesharing networks, therefore I do not make any copyrighted material available to anyone else. I only download a movie for personal use and If it is not available by any other means.
I do not believe I need a good kick up the ass to be honest, I am actually part of a growing band of people that have created a marketplace that the studios are going to exploit over the coming years and make heaps of money from.
When Hollywood studios cry poverty and refuse to pay writers for download sales at the same time as paying actors $10-$20 MILLION DOLLARS for a couple of months work believe me I do not have any trouble sleeping at night.
Thanks
January 16th, 2008 at 11:32 pm
John, I gotta say, I’m rather surprised at your reaction. While I understand the value of not getting upset about the things you cannot change, I think practically endorsing piracy of your is a tad too far to go.
The WGA has taken to the streets to fight people posting your work online with no compensation to you. They are justifying this by calling it promotion. I know you’ve been one of the more visible supporters of this cause via your blog. But now when someone else posts your work online with no compensation, you say, “Ç´est la vie, perhaps it will serve as promotion.” I think your stance on the Nines being released to bittorrent greatly undermines the importance of the WGAs fight.
Perhaps you feel it is different because studios profit when publishing online, but pirates do not. But the reality is that both are profiting. While I personally might not see income if I seed your film, the people who list promote the torrents Go to any public tracker — you will see adverts aplenty. The Pirate Bay alone, which currently returns 5 torrents for The Nines, is estimated to pull in $60,000 per month in ad revenues. How is it okay for them to profit off your work but not for the AMPTPE? At least the latter actually pays you for your work in other formats.
Your soft stance on piracy makes it difficult to justify people losing their jobs over your firm stance on the WGA strike.
January 17th, 2008 at 1:17 am
Hi,
I have not read all the comments, but I have to give you my thoughts about this issue. In this case I’ll download the torrent, which I definatly don
t do often. Its becaus i want to see it. And the good thing for you is the following. I will see it in my cinema of choice if is released in Germany and/or i will buy the DVD. So it will not harm you if they release it her, and if they don`t you have one more person around the world who saw itJanuary 17th, 2008 at 2:16 am
I missed its limited release in the UK and we have to wait until March for the dvd so I watched it online. I will definately be buying the dvd, not only for the extras but to show my support for what I think is a great film. I also have the ‘Is that all there is?’ t-shirt as well (from participating in The Nines SL game)I really enjoyed listening to the audio commentary while watching it a second time as well, it was really informative and thank you for doing that.
January 17th, 2008 at 2:22 am
GM - try sticking to things that are illegal if you’re going to try to make me feel guilty.
What you should be more concerned about are the Australian Federal Police raids yesterday in Sydney on - yep - internet cafes specialising in piracy. The AFP have a new, bigger budget to tackle intellectual property theft (hint: it doesn’t include lending a mate a book). They’re coming after folks just like you. Sleep well.
January 17th, 2008 at 5:26 am
John, I must thank you for this blog post - had you not voiced your opinion here, you would have missed a DVD sale and I would have remained ignorant about a truly awesome film. Today I heard about The Nines for the first time when your post made it to the news ticker of German file-sharing board Gulli.com [1]. Got interested, downloaded the film, loved it and hopped over to Amazon.
Unlicenced downloads are here to stay, so the industry will have to adjust. You already have done that. Congratulations! And best of wishes for the strike!
[1] http://www.gulli.com/news/movie-the-nines-via-bittorrent-2008-01-17/
January 17th, 2008 at 7:17 am
Good reaction. When the Internet becomes self-aware and takes over, you’ll likely be spared.
January 17th, 2008 at 8:33 am
Hi John,
I was not aware of the movies existence at all before I read about this exact blog post on my favorite (german) news site. I read your post and all comments up to now and I like the discussion that is going on here.
First of all: I became very interested in the movie itself. While I am probably gonna download it instead of waiting for a release over here, I will definitely buy the DVD if I like it. The biggest part of my DVD collection was chosen this way.
If I had bought or paid a movie ticket for any movie I found interesting by the trailer, I’d be hating the movie business for sucking my money for rubbish by now.
As a programmer I have come into contact with piracy from both sides (my programs being pirated, too) but still I like to see it as “giving back to the people”. Sure, I don’t like the fact that I don’t see any money for the pirated copies but then again, I didn’t pay either for lots of stuff.
Of course I see the problem with this logic in general, not everyone can or wants to give back so there has to be money involved somewhere. Still, the amounts are the problem here. If I pay 20 bucks for a movie and it’s the same movie as I get on the DVD, there has to be a reason for buying it. In my case, it would be “I like this movie and I like showing off that I own a legitimate copy of it.” I don’t care much about extras. Take one of ma all-time favorite movies for example:
I own a copy of the Rocky Horror Picture Show, a movie I tend to watch every few weeks because it is just plain fun to watch. As much as I like it, I didn’t really touch the extras yet (any german readers here, stay away from the german subtitles, they are the worst stuff I have ever seen labeled “extra” on a DVD…) Still, I don’t regret a single cent of the money I spent on the DVD. Because the movie is awesome. Although I saw it before owning the DVD. Get what I mean? ^^
Same counts for any other good movies I see. Sure, piracy is an issue causing financial loss. While I don’t think it is as bad as some people put it (a download does NOT equal a lost sale) I agree that it causes losses to the people who put their work into it. Writers and directors, for example.
Part of the problem is caused by the business model, though. Lots of movie-watching people are not even adults. They don’t have the money to shell out 20 bucks for a movie they want to see. Or rather: Not for all movies they want to see. Sure, some might say “Then watch only one!” but I don’t think that’s it.
One example from my own experience: Schools. In school, you will frequently get to hear “This movie was so awesome, you got to see it!” Leaving aside the peer pressure factor that might be caused by this, it’s also a great way of “marketing” in it’s own right. Unless, of course, you can’t pay. Now here’s the point where a teenager thinks “Well, I don’t have the money to pay for it but I wanna see it anyway. So let’s check the torrent.”
So a movie release on torrent might as well cause loss by people not buying it but also cause a financial gain by promoting it. From a moral standpoint (for me, that is) it’s fine to download movies. If there’s something interesting around, I’ll pay for it. Not for the production or the delivery of the content, but for the work the creators have put into it.
I like your attitude about the fact it is available for download. There was not much you could do to prevent it. But there will be lots of people who wouldn’t have noticed the movie without downloads from illegal sources. So aside from the financial aspect, it’s cool that people want to see your work, isn’t it? Well okay, being a commercially succesful writer that might not be new for you but still… I think it’s cool to see people who actually care about it and are not presented in the form of sales figures but instead of people saying “I liked your movie!” or even “I want to donate.” It’s more human.
Ah well, sorry for blabbering on that long, most people won’t even read it anyway. ^^
Thanks for your enlightening post and the open attitude about it. You don’t like piracy of your movie, that’s totally understandable. But you gain viewers even by talking about that. Me, for example.
January 17th, 2008 at 9:51 am
A lot of commentors have been critizing John’s lack-of-vitriol over illegal downloading, citing his support of the strike as hypocritical in that light.
Personally, I don’t see how active involvement in a strike that very directly affects the income of yourself and your coworkers for decades to come is equatable with an angry, preaching-to-the-choir blurb on a blog.
I have illegally downloaded a single movie, once. It was after purchasing the DVD; I liked it but thought it could’ve been so much better - and one of these days, I’m going to re-cut it to get it closer to what I think it could’ve been.
Other than that - aside from it being illegal, honestly, I’m too lazy to download. Legal DVDs are less hassle (never have to worry about what will play them); I have netflix, and there’s a video store blocks away to fill in the gaps from mailing time.
Because I’m way too impatient to wait a day or so to get the video (and leave the torrent open for as long in torrent-etiquette).
January 17th, 2008 at 11:38 am
“Who would download crappy 640X480 avi files of the next big cinema hit…”
I don’t know, because most files nowadays are full DVD resolution if not HD. Yes, there are already full resolution 1080p rips from bluray and hddvd being pirated. Data is data, and people are getting faster connections every day.
To follow up on the question about royalties on Netflix and other disk rental, the writers (and I assume other talent) gets no royalties on rentals, but does the studio even get anything beyond the cost of the disks that Netflix buys?
And don’t studios sometimes cut deals with rental companies where they provide disks for cheaper or even free in exchange for a cut of rental fees? Many netflix disks are labled as rental copies only, with bare bones disk artwork.
In the last couple days, I have seen many people complain that Apple’s $3.99 or even $2.99 for a rental is way too expensive. But in the case of a download rental, the studio gets a cut of every rental (and I assume it’s fairly high since none of the companies doing it are charging less than Apple so far).
If a download company has to pay the studio $2 per view (and charges $3), while a company renting physical disks can buy a copy for $15 and rent it 50 times for a buck apiece (redbox?) isn’t it pretty much impossible for the downloads to match the price of the guys with the plastic frisbees? It doesn’t seem to be a level playing field.
Any insight from inside the business would be appreciated, it’s all very opaque to a consumer.
I’m looking forward to seeing the Nines - it’s in my netflix queue but I’m a bit bummed that John won’t get anything out of my renting it from them. I guess best case is that if there’s enough demand, netflix will buy a few more copies.
January 17th, 2008 at 1:59 pm
Dominic,
I a sorry but I really think you are getting downloading a movie that someone has decided to share with someone else confused with piracy. Piracy is not the topic of discussion on this blog and I am certainly not a pirate. Pirates make profit selling copies of movies.
I promise you there is no difference between you borrowing a DVD from someone to watch a movie you either cannot get hold of yourself or you don’t want to pay for it and downloading a copy of the same movie from a website. No difference whatsoever Dominic and If you think there is then you are just deluding yourself into believing this whole idea about “downloading is stealing”.
So you have got no moral argument at all here, you have admitted that you are happy with depriving copyright owners of revenue if it means watching a friends DVD rather than buying it but not happy if someone downloads it. So you argument is purely legal, it’s the old “Well if it is illegal it must be wrong” argument.
Don’t get Piracy confused with what people here are talking about, which is downloading a single copy for personal use. I never use filesharing networks and therefore never upload or share movies with anyone else. To call me a pirate is just ludicrous and the courts are fining it very hard to prosecute people for just downloading, the legality of it does not seem to be so certain because they always end up prosecuting people for sharing content not downloading it (when you use fliesharing networks you are actually sharing it too).
January 17th, 2008 at 3:23 pm
Dominic, I am conscious of not turning John’s blog into an argument, and that is not what I intended but I took offense to be called a thief when I certainly do not feel like one. My intention was to try and get you too see that it is not as black and white as the studios and their lawyers would have you believe.
I am a huge supporter of the film industry and independent movies in particular, I go to my local Independent cinema often and pay to watch movies, I rent DVD’s, I watch people trying to sell me jars of Nescafe in between movies on the TV. I contribute more money to the movie industry that the average person, And that is the strange thing, you will find that that majority of downloaders do too, because we are film fans we are more likely to spend a greater proportion of our money on movies than non downloaders. Hollywood will understand this soon, they need to because as your posts have proven they are trying their best to turn their best customers into thiefs and pirates at the moment and that will not help them long term.
As i said on John’s other post given the opportunity to download Radiohead’s new album for free but chose to pay them $10 instead, but that was choice I made.
I will not comment again but just really dislike being called a thief when I am certainly am not.
Thanks
January 17th, 2008 at 3:41 pm
“Yeah! Let’s work on a system where we can pay the artists for there work!”
I think there’s a system like that already in place.
January 17th, 2008 at 4:27 pm
GM: You’re forgetting that “sharing” on the internet via download is actually reproduction, unlike sharing an actual DVD with a mate. Where there was one copy, now there are many illegal, unpaid-for ones. That, my friend, is the exact same thing as piracy. Which is why it is illegal. As I said, keep talking and you might convince yourself you’re doing nothing wrong. You will not convince me.
I never called anyone a thief. I said the Australian Federal Police have a new, big budget to tackle intellectual property theft (their term for illegal downloading, among other things). Which is true. Came in last budget - $12.4million to be precise. I’d imagine that gives them enough manpower/womanpower to do a lot of poking around on internet users in Australia.
January 17th, 2008 at 4:58 pm
Sorry Dominic, had to reply..
This is a really grey area, Let us say for instance that I downloaded The Nines this morning, Yes you are 100% correct I have made a copy, reproduced that disk on my own computer. But once I have watched it I delete it, so that copy ceases to exist. It was a temp copy if you like, so no there is not another Illegal copy of that movie in the wild.
Now DVD players buffer do they not? They read ahead in the movie and commit it to memory so that if the DVD skips or jumps it does not affect the movie you are watching. They actually temporarily make a copy of that movie that is useful for viewing and then dumps it as soon as it is viewed.
Thus is watching DVD illegal too? it sure sounds the same to me.
Most lawyers will tell you that (apart from the US that is) it is not illegal to make a copy of a DVD you own, same thing as it is not illegal to rip CD’s into itunes. I myself rip all of my bought DVD’s as soon as I buy them for storage in case the original gets lost or damaged, this is not illegal. In some countries it is not illegal to download movies, I am not even sure it is illegal anywhere, by the current laws it is very difficult to prosecute someone for simply copying a movie.
When the Australian police talk about piracy or IP theft they are not talking about downloaders, they are talking about people who copy and share copyrighted materials for commercial gain. In order to be a pirate you need to be compensated for what you do, that is piracy. They are going after the people who make this content available to others, not people who download a movie for their own use. Yes they want to stop it, they are under enormous pressure from hollywood to stop it but they are tackling the issue from the only legal way they can and that is not try to stop the sharers and pirates.
Same way that nobody in there right mind would arrest anyone for buying a fake pair of Nike Trainers even though technically they are breaking the law, they of course would like to arrest the people selling the fake Nike trainers.
January 17th, 2008 at 5:46 pm
As I said, keep talking etc.
January 17th, 2008 at 6:32 pm
Sorry, just realised that sounds like I’m baiting you. I’m not. Just my way of saying we’ll have to agree to disagree. Where you see grey, I see black and white.
January 17th, 2008 at 7:44 pm
I got what you meant Dominic, I never thought that you were baiting me. I was more worried about me coming across as argumentative, it is one thing to have a “lively debate” on a forum made for such purposes but I did not want to look I was turning John’s excellent site into a war zone!
It is a subject I am passionate about, not downloading as such but the film industry as a whole. I am deeply concerned for the way things are going and of course I want a future for the industry hence why my posts my seem a little passionate, I have a tendency to wear my heart of my sleeve so to speak - maybe a fault but a bit old for changing now.
The whole industry needs a shake up, the world has changed, the way people view movies has changed, I am not alone in really getting tired of going to the cinema - I have given up on chains, the experience is no longer worth the expense. I like many others have spent an incredible amount of money building a state of the art home theatre system and I much prefer watching my movies at home. Delivery over the Internet is by far the most convenient method and there is no doubt that it is the future of movies, like it or not it is a fact.
I love movies, I watch loads of them, maybe 7 movies a week - I never watch TV anymore. There are many movies I would never have got to have seen unless I had downloaded them, some of them I have even bought in DVD since seeing them. I cannot afford to go to the cinema 7 times a week, besides many of the movies i download do not even get a cinema run in Australia! Do you really think that it is better for a movie not to be seen as long as it was not watched illegally? There is a lot of choice out there, the small movies quite often need the exposure of illegal downloads to get their name about - this is a fact. illegal downloading actually does help the independent movies gain an audience that would never have had the chance to see them.
So the quicker that the studios stop messing about and get their go to market strategy inline with the expectations of the new generation of customers the quicker that the piracy issue can be addressed and hopefully ended. The people who are making these movies available are only fulfilling a need that is not being addressed legally. But we are getting there, iTunes, Netlix etc.. in the states are getting somewhere, soon hopefully in Australia (though a long way off I fear). Big Pond in Australia are offering downloads of very old movies but only to Windows users (this is fairly typical, the BBC have an online service too but only for Windows users). But we are getting there.
I do not agree with criminalizing downloaders until there is a legal alternative source for them to get their movies. One we have a system where latest releases are available to anyone who want to pay for them then I will agree with shutting down the illegal source and if needed fining people who carry on illegally downloading. But it is stupid to spend so much money doing it now, I mean come on is their not enough crime in Australia already without having the police spending all day arresting people for downloading a movie?
Trust me, one day soon a movie release will mean a simultaneous cinema, DVD and download release worldwide and will be the illegal downloaders who would have made that market possible. And so what if movies make less money because of it, I hope they do. Lets all go back a few years and stop with the $200 MIllion budgets with $50 MIllion marketing funds and $20 MIllion paychecks for Will Smith. The Industry will be much better off when it stops being all about money and people like John gets to make more movies than they get the chance now.
I know what you think of downloaders, and you are perfectly entitled to your opinion, you have valid reasons to think that but the issue is nowhere near as black and white as you seem to think.
January 18th, 2008 at 10:44 am
Claiming that the buffering in a DVD player is just as much copying the content as pirating it then deleting the file is just idiotic.
When you buy a movie and loan it to a friend, there is a copy bought, and the number of people who can borrow it in a given amount of time is limited by the fact that it’s a physical object and can only be in one place at once.
With file sharing, one source file can be distributed to thousands of viewers at once.
You’ve obviously convinced yourself that what you’re going isn’t immoral or illegal. But if you’re trying to get others to condone what you’re doing, it’s not going to happen.
January 20th, 2008 at 1:43 pm
I feel obligated to weigh-in since it was my big digital mouth that started the controversy.
I’ve read the comments here and feel compelled to say, in a nut, the comments indicate that the Hollywood distribution system is broken; and not just a little broken, but extremely broken. Torrents are a workaround to that broken system.
No one here, including me, wants to steal from Mr. August. We know that and he knows that. Someone mentioned that John should put up a PayPal link to receive payment from those who have downloaded The Nin9s. I would donate but don’t expect to see the PayPal button anytime soon because Sony and or another distribber would likely sue Mr. August for contract breach heretofore and forthwith ad legal nauseum. Did I mention that the system is broken?
I put my short show, Memoir, up on BitTorrent last year and several hundreds of folks got to see it who would otherwise not have had the… experience
But I didn’t have a studio deal or 68 lawyers ready to climb my colon, and etc.
Is there a solution? Of course, there’s always a solution. The trick is finding a solution that most, if not all, of the players want to play with.
My only idea is to establish a fund contributed to by distribbers, studios, and even film viewers that allows a creator to be compensated no matter how the show is distributed. So, if The Nines is DLed 9,785 times from 35 torrent trackers, then everyone on the residual list gets their cut.
Maybe it’s too simple.
January 21st, 2008 at 10:15 am
John, I read your blog feeds every time that you post.
I have to say that BitTorrent is not what is to fear, but rather http://quicksilverscreen.com/ Have you been there? It’s a very scary thought. Specially for me because this is the industry that I work in.
I really do think that it is a shame that such hard work is displayed in such a manner.
Romina
January 25th, 2008 at 6:48 pm
Hey John, I ended up downloading The Nines after reading about it here. I wonder how much you’ve increased the downloads by talking about it here? Anyway, great movie and I promise I’ll buy the DVD as soon as it is available in Mexico where I live.
January 31st, 2008 at 7:05 am
dude, what you are doing here is awsome! i feel god damn guilty since i am one of those people from around the world that downloaded your movie “for free” and you made a really great thing here. i had no idea what it was about or any real expectations but it blew my mind. it hasent been released in germany yet but im so going to buy the dvd when it is. thanks for this!
February 17th, 2008 at 8:54 am
Also living in Australia and we are indeed fucked around by the entertainment industry over here.
I had not heard about The Nines or you till it popped up on a torrent site that I frequent. My friends girlfriend also had not heard of the movie or you until, I urged her to sit down and watch it. She repeated the words “WOW” and “I really love movies like this” many times after sitting down and I felt the same. I am sick of going to the cinema and paying a lot of money to do something which is the equivalent of torture 80% of the time, both because of the dribble that is constantly released and the very poor quality of cinemas and the entertainment industry over here. However I would gladly transfer three times that amount in gratitude for you making this movie. I already have an electronic copy of the movie so no ofcourse I’m not going to go out and contribute to the current environmental problem by buying a DVD that I might never even open, even if it means you don’t get paid for your work. However I sincerely wish I could just send money to a bank account every time I see a movie that I like and I’m sure there are many others out there who feel the same way.
We know that in order for movies to keep getting made we need to pay for them. But really, why stick to such a crap distribution model when all it would take would be for you to set up a torrent and an international bank account. I would not be surprised if your profits ended up being far greater with such a distribution system. Then after the obviousness of the system became apparent the big guys would set up a better system probably around a subscription model. You pay a set fee every month and can download any movie you want and you get to say what percentage of your fee goes to each movie.
Ehhh…. who am I kidding, logic never wins out in this world.
February 18th, 2008 at 3:03 pm
John, To be honest I had never heard of The Nines until it “fell into my lap”. Since then I’ve watched it twice and like it so much that I’ve ordered it from Amazon. I’ve been telling as many people as I can to watch it. That’s the thing Hollywood doesn’t seem to realize. There are a lot of GREAT films out there that go completely unnoticed. Torrent sites and the people whom download from them are the final movie critics. It can either help a movie get great recognition or keep it at the same level as it was before when no one knew it had existed. It seems more justified or credible to say that a movie became a “Cult Classic” or “Underground Sensation” because that means the fans were there to support it when the big wigs at the studios didn’t feel the need to market it. If someone is a true fan of this movie they will buy it, just as I did. Great movie and great work. I really enjoyed it.