The Duluth Dilemma
In Banging a chainsaw against a tree, I expressed my frustration at those who complain how unfair it is that screenwriters in, say, Duluth, aren’t taken seriously. It got a lot of responses.
Mike writes:
Why can’t he complain if no one takes a screenwriter in Duluth seriously? If he wrote a damn good screenplay that someone (producer, agent) read and wanted to get involved, why would it matter? ‘Oh he lives in Duluth. Bin it.’…? No. It’d be a phone call and a plane flight away if his or her writing were good enough.
The film world does not revolve around Hollywood or L.A. anymore and less so in the future. I think you’re a great Hollywood writer John and I love your blog, but some of your practical advice is somewhat conflicting and unreal at times. It’s just as hard to get a film off in Hollywood/L.A. as it is anywhere else on this spinning globe of ours.
Kevin Arbouet disagrees.
The fact is, the film industry absolutely does revolve around Los Angeles. Los Angeles is the primary hub for film and television much like New York City is the primary hub for theatre.
And I think you’re misunderstanding the whole Duluth thing. With the exception of those great (and mostly fake) PR articles about some dude who worked in a factory in Maine, wrote a screenplay, mailed it to Alan Horn, and then got a movie deal, screenplays are not sold in that way.
Paula agrees with Kevin.
The point is that you have to be in L.A. to take the meetings that lead to work. The spec sale is a) rare and b) not a career. Most writers write on assignment a good deal of the time, including all those who make a living at it, and many who sell specs never work again.
Kevin and Paula are offering a variation on what I call the “Nashville Argument.” The country music industry is based in Nashville, Tennessee. If you’re a country music singer/songwriter, you could stubbornly refuse to move there. You could record your demos in Denver and put them on your MySpace page and play all the local clubs.
But while you’re doing that, a hundred other singer-songwriters are in Nashville, surrounded by an industry that is looking for the next great song, or the next great star. If you lived in Nashville, every third person you met would have a connection to the industry. You could learn from the best performers and technicians in the world.
Moving to Nashville is a smart, proactive move. But you could stay in Denver and just hope for the best. And if your career never takes off, at least you’ll have some heartbreak to write a song about.
On the other hand, LA is the root of all evil
From Duluth is not a fan of Los Angeles:
So you really take those a-holes who sit in Starbucks sipping on their mocha-cappa-frappe-crappie typing a screenplay seriously? It seems to me that quite a bit of the really interesting ideas that get turned into films come from outside LA (as in the rest of the world), while all the well worn, heavily remade, formulaic films come from LA. This is a major problem with the “industry” right now and it amounts to what can best be described as creative incest.
Nick argues against the stereotypes:
You’re trying to make your point by overgeneralizing — acting like every screenwriter in L.A. is a delusional doofus who sits in Starbucks all day, while the serious creative folks are nested away throughout America’s heartland.
That just isn’t the case. I’m not going to argue that there aren’t good writers outside of L.A., but I will argue (correctly) that there are plenty of jackasses from Oregon to South Carolina who think that they can write a totally awesome screenplay just because they saw The Matrix 40 times. (Pay a visit to the TriggerStreet site if you don’t believe me.)
You’re also conveniently ignoring another important fact when you trash the artistic landscape of Los Angeles. The reason it continues to be the world capital of film is that creative people from all over the world choose to come here to write, direct, act, design sets, and so forth. They don’t just sprout up fully formed in front of the Hollywood sign. They’re bringing their individual perspectives to L.A. because its where they believe they’ll have the best opportunity to express themselves. Most of the time, the output of that expression is deeply flawed. But, as Kevin points out, it’s no different anywhere else in the world. You’re just judging the L.A. film industry more harshly because you’re more familiar with the spectrum of films it produces.
Finally, The Other Side calls me out:
I had always believed that your first concern was with making art; now I see that your primary preoccupation has been with careerism.
Initially, I wanted to rant and rail against you and shake you from your ignorance. But then, you are completely right. If one wants to make a living as a screenwriter then a move to LA is of a huge advantage.
I’m sure you would agree that it was by living in LA that you secured the job of adapting Roald Dahl’s “Willie Wonka and the Chocolate Factory”?
Funnily enough though, Dahl — also a sometime screenwriter — found he did his best writing in a garden shed. In Wales. An entire ocean of solitude away from sushi-lunches and free diet cokes. You were later paid handsomely to rearranged his ideas, and probably far more than any advance paid to Dahl for his novel.
Considering TOS knew about garden shed, I’m surprised he didn’t get the title of Dahl’s book right. But he inadvertently makes my point: you can be a novelist anywhere, even a garden shed in Wales — or Duluth. A novelist can largely function as a hermit. A screenwriter can’t. A screenwriter’s career consists of meetings and pitches and endless social interactions, many of them aggravating, which may be one reason Dahl’s screenwriting career was so brief.
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February 2nd, 2009 at 6:36 am
Interesting points made on both sides of the coin. While I sit here in Duluth, like many of those who would not consider myself a screenwriter, and yet dedicate time and energy working on my projects and learning everything I can, it seems like the best of both worlds fantasy would be ideal. But yes, I imagine that it’s probably not really feasible, and would get expensive real quick if all you’ve got coming in are specs and other small low-paying projects.
February 2nd, 2009 at 7:36 am
I agree with John. If you want a career in screenwriting you should spend some time in Los Angeles or New York at some point.
There are exceptions of course. If you are an established writer in England ala Richard Curtis, Peter Morgan, etc. then no, you don’t have to live in Hollywood. Or if you are respected and/or successful in another medium like the writers (journalist and novelists) of THE WIRE, it will be easier to get an agent.
I don’t live in L.A. now but my manager is there and I busted my butt for over a decade as a development exec/producer. Would my writing career be further along if I had stayed? I don’t know.
I cannot live in L.A. It is not my city. So if I have to take a financial hit for my mental health so be it. It’s a risk I’m willing to take. I love Rome. Creatively, things have never been better.
February 2nd, 2009 at 7:54 am
I have a friend who lives in Orange County and works nights. Even though he’s close by, he still misses industry parties and screenings and events, although he goes to as many as he can. He’s very, very talented and has won a ton of contests with his TV scripts but he still hasn’t broken that barrier. I keep telling him if he just moves up a few miles and switches to the day shift, that may be all it takes. Honestly if I had a script that was amazing right now I’d be in like that dude who’s in stuff. It takes about five minutes to meet the right people in LA. It takes decades anywhere else.
February 2nd, 2009 at 8:08 am
I live in New York, and I meet and have people who have definitely helped my career … one thing I’d note is that a lot of these very people (producers, managers, etc) often HAVE to go to LA themselves for business.
So we’re thinking about moving.
I’m also reminded of the classic Sam Kinison bit about world hunger …
February 2nd, 2009 at 8:23 am
So John, your advice to Duluth dwellers who don’t yet know anyone in L.A. would be…? I think you’re right about all of this, but I’d like to more about what your guidance is for people who actually make the trip. How do they go from out-of-town nobody to getting their first “in”? Just curious, because some of us might actually be foolhardy enough to try one day.
February 2nd, 2009 at 9:39 am
So what about Terry Rossio’s column here: http://www.wordplayer.com/columns/wp33.I.Love.LA.html
It was always my understanding from his column and even the Duluth post that moving to LA was only something to be taken seriously once one had matured enough as a writer that they could survive in LA.
Otherwise, what’s the point? I thought it was common knowledge that no amount of Hollywood connections could make up for actual writing ability. So, logically, writing ability should be strongly developed first, THEN you move to LA.
No?
February 2nd, 2009 at 10:02 am
I have no idea what its like to NOT live in LA, but, I can say that, living here has put me very naturally in the following positions: 1- If I write something truly great, it will take me precisely no effort to get it read by the right people. (That is to say that, because I live here, and people know I’m devout, writing brilliantly without forgiveness is my challenge. Not getting read.) 2- 100% of the people I meet in this city who are at a loss for who to show their work to, (A) Aren’t taking the vocation seriously enough to have done the work in the first place… meaning, their script isn’t ready and is improperly formatted to begin with. (B) Feel like they HAVE done the work because they’ve written ump-teen drafts to get this far, and, having read a total of 12 scripts, believe that what they’re holding in their hand is The Sixth Sense. (C) Would naturally know where to go had they been as deeply immersed in the craft as their competition is. (Many of whom are on this board, totally serious, AND in LA). And (D) Would honestly hurt my life in some way were I to take their script to those who respect me.
Yes. 145 films a year. It is a competition. And if you’re both brilliant… the girl in LA is the driver who bought the bigger engine.
February 2nd, 2009 at 10:26 am
@Matt:
I’ve written a lot about the journey to LA, so dig around on the site a bit.
@Raji:
I love Terry. He and Ted commuted to Los Angeles for years, and his account of how that worked is worth reading. I’d point out that the intelligence-reducing “brain cloud” he mentions is something of a self-fulfilling prophecy. Since LA is where everyone who wants to make movies comes, that means that an abundant number of idiots come as well.
(Nashville probably has the highest concentration of bad country songwriters for that same reason.)
Terry’s column is ten years old; I’m curious whether any of his opinions on the matter have changed. He wonders what life is like for writers much more successful than him and Ted, but they’re easily at or near the top now.
February 2nd, 2009 at 10:35 am
I think my only real gripe with your initial blog statement was:
“The don’t want to commit fully to the form or the craft.”
I can understand the idea of moving to LA if you want to make a living and a career as a screenwriter. But, to say someone who doesn’t live in LA isn’t committed to the form or craft of screenwriting is absurd.
To use your analogy, the musician in Denver may be fully committed to making the most brilliant music he can and may be, in fact, much better than most of the singer songwriters in Nashville. Because he won’t move to Nashville to follow his “career” doesn’t mean he isn’t committed to making the best of his music.
I don’t think that someone living in Duluth can not be as committed to writing the best screenplays he can. It just means he may not be able to make a career at it.
February 2nd, 2009 at 10:36 am
“They don’t want authors” in Hollywood, Scott Fitzgerald once wrote. “They want writers.”
There’s a big difference. One which Dahl, alone in his shed, must have appreciated.
February 2nd, 2009 at 10:55 am
People who are saying you can write screenplays anywhere have never actually tried to make a living with their craft. I’m a theatrical sound designer in the DC area. Now I know its not New York but I’m not trying to get on Broadway. But I am trying to work ni DC and you have to live in the place you are trying to work. Otherwise you will meet people and maybe you’ll get one gig but they will forget about you. These people who are trying to hire you see many many many people who are vying for the same spot you are and they will get the job simply because other people see them around town and see their name on other projects, which you never even knew about it because you do not live there. I cannot tell you how much of my season has just fallen into my lap becuase I know someone who knows someone looking for a sound designer. Or knows a sound designer who cannot do the gig and passes it on to me. This is simply not possible if you don’t live where you want to work.
Further more to say John is a careerist is simply misunderstanding the economics of being paid for your craft. It’s not good enough to get one gig. You need to think about sustainability. Isn’t that the real dream isn’t that what you mean whe you sy you want to be a screanwritter and have that as your only job? Not matter what you do work is work sometimes and to keep getting work you need to do things that are related to your craft but are not the masterpiece you want to create for the world. I think thats the mark of a true professional someone who gives it theier all whether it’s just a spec or a major motion picture that is gearing up for production?
February 2nd, 2009 at 11:20 am
I moved to LA a few months ago because I exactly DID want to commit fully to the form and the craft. Unfortunately, screenwriting is not a standalone artistic expression. You have a vision, the director has a vision, the producers, the costume designers, etc. So it’s important to be where they are to understand what they do, which helps everyone make better films.
I can’t become a better screenwriter by having my mom tell me how cute she thinks my ideas are. I can’t be successful by pushing my script on my friends. I came to LA because I want to master the art of visual storytelling, learning from the best, having smart people critique me.
The best screenwriter in Duluth doesn’t mean shit to me. If I want to use my artistic sensibilities and improve my craft, then I’m finding the best in the world and figuring out how they do what they do. Chances are, they live here. If they live in Duluth, then I’d move there. Problem is, I’d never hear about it if they did.
February 2nd, 2009 at 11:22 am
What I hope is happening to the movie industry is the same thing that happened to the wine industry, the electronics industry, and the software industry. Each of these industries has their Mecca, their creative center. For a while, each center was the only place to participate in the business. Now, each business has companies of talented and committed people across the country and around the world doing great work. One may no longer need to live in LA for one’s entire life to learn and benefit from the LA movie culture. A visit to Mecca every once in a while may be enough.
February 2nd, 2009 at 12:25 pm
A poster said that his/her challenge was to write brilliantly — and that getting read was easy.
See, this is where I’m stumped. I’d love to move to LA — but if I can’t get read now (by way of queries/contacting producers on my own) how do I have any hope of getting read there? That’s one hell of a leap of faith you’ve got to take, and one I’d do if I could sell something first. I have the sick feeling it’s a scenario not many screenwriters navigate with success.
Nicholl winners always seem to be from places other than LA. I think it’s why the contest is so popular — some attention without the fear of uprooting yourself?
February 2nd, 2009 at 12:33 pm
To echo Chris and some of the other statements I’ve read, isn’t being a great writer in Duluth like being the leading scorer in the Greek Basketball League when your dream is to be in the NBA? Sure, succeed from far away long enough and someone might come knocking, or just show up at mini-camps and tryouts and get noticed quicker.
Simply, it’s a matter of you going to them, or them coming to you. Which is more likely? Therein, you will find your answer.
February 2nd, 2009 at 12:37 pm
Out of curiosity, does any one have any experience with writing in any of the locations that are becoming filming hot spots? For example, i know that the state of New Mexico gives an incentive to projects that are written by New Mexico residents. I personally do not want to move to LA, but i know that while there is technically a Colorado film community, it’s not realistic to think that i can do full time writing work here. Thus, a place like New Mexico holds some appeal for me.
Thanks.
February 2nd, 2009 at 1:37 pm
Not a real hotspot, but I was writing in San Antonio, which is just 90 minutes away from Austin. Didn’t really help at all.
New York is marginally better — but even here there are few managers and agencies and those that do have a presence in NY seem to do most of their screenwriting representation out of L.A.
February 2nd, 2009 at 1:48 pm
Carol,
I remember before I moved to LA someone on Worldplayer said “Trust me. In LA you can’t spit without hitting someone in the industry.”
They were completely right. I was here about three weeks before I was already making contacts. There are free movie screenings and movie related events all over town. Hell you meet industry people at the gym or in line at the post office. You make friends with people who have friends in high places. The other day our computer tech guy started talking about movies to me and by the time he left he had my card to give to his friend the producer. That happens daily around here.
Trust me, if you move here, you find the right people eventually. The hard part is having the right script.
February 2nd, 2009 at 2:44 pm
As someone who lives in Duluth and recently had a screenplay optioned, I have two things to say:
Why is it that Duluth always seems to be the go-to city for bleak misery and hopelessness? Wait, we did just have 100 hours in double-digit below-zero temps. Okay, so I answered that one myself.
I fully understand that I will need to move to L.A. if this spec gets sold. However, I’m not willing to pick up my wife and dog, leave our families, leave the job she loves and move to a city we both visited and didn’t like with nothing but a dream and a wish in my pocket.
I know I’m serious about writing. But I’m also serious about not making myself and my family miserable while I persue a dream that may never come true.
February 2nd, 2009 at 2:49 pm
I have a commercial agent in Miami who started working as a literary agent about a year ago.
She has a few scripts that she has been trying to sell. And while her clients have had a few meetings, nothing has worked out. That’s a whole flight across the country for one meeting. Can you imagine how jet lag might have affected the writers’s pitch?
Now if her writers lived in LA?
The writer could head out to a meeting with very short notice. Could book several meetings over the span of a month without worry of paying for airfare. Would know other people, landmarks, events that have happened that can connect the writer to the executive who might buy and produce that script.
And really that’s a large amount of what it comes down to. It’s not what you know, it’s who you know, regardless of how talented you are (although don’t get me wrong, there are talented people in other parts of the country).
If you want to do the work, you have to be where the work is.
Not to mention when at the Mecca, the astounding ability to improve your work by comparing it with what is about to be produced, or hot scripts that are making the rounds.
Someone who considers themselves a professional screen writer would put themselves where the work is.
Simple as that.
February 2nd, 2009 at 3:05 pm
Carol:
Queries are but one (and in my opinion, the least effectual) way to get your screenplay read. Networking is by far the very best way. Los Angeles is filled with someone who knows someone, who knows someone, who knows someone. Hell, I’m at the same agency with John August so I kind of knew about his deals before the trades did.
Ahem: I only knew because agents love to brag about their sales. And I believe my agent said something to the tune of, “Hey, I’ll get to your script when I can. Fuck, it ain’t like your John August booking 4 million a year!” Yes, that conversation actually happened.
Do you know who knows someone, who knows someone, who knows someone in Duluth? NOBODY!
It’s not about getting someone to read your screenplay. But it is about getting someone to read your screenplay that can actually get it to someone else who knows someone, who knows someone, who knows someone. Come out and take a chance. That’s what we did!
February 2nd, 2009 at 3:59 pm
Thanks Emily and Kevin for your thoughts. It’s given me some hope. Everyone in LA lives in their cars anyway, right? Maybe I can actually, you know, live in mine — for a few months — and test out the waters.
If you see a frazzled scrawny girl walking around with a stack of screenplays in her hand and a wild look in her eyes, that’ll be me. Oy.
If I can ask a stupid question — in your opinions are the “Pitch Fest” type of events (advertised in the trades) worth attending as an alternative (in the short run) to “living” in LA? Or are they generally non productive for a serious screenwriter?
February 2nd, 2009 at 4:12 pm
In the end, film is a collaborative artform. When dealig with collaborative art, one winds up with a career by figuring out how they interact with their creative community, with their collaborators, and with their audience.
For some reason, they don’t teach this in film school. In theater, it’s gospel. Nevertheless, every successful filmmaker has a place in their community.
Maybe your place is Poughkeepsie, New York. If so, I’ll be damned if I meet you for coffee! How are you going to find your place in this community, and more importantly, how are you going to maintain it? How are you going to be inspired by other artists? How will they play off of you? How will you find that one guy after a cheesy stage production of Neil Simon with whom you finally decide to get off your ass and produce something?
You think this business is about writing a great screenplay, getting an agent, and finding your stride? Brothers and sisters, this business is about making movies! If you’re not here to make them, what the hell are you doing? More importantly, why should anybody else care?
Because this is collaborative art, it’s pretty important that other people care about your work, how you work, and most of all, (lest we forget that this all about people,) it’s important that your creative community cares about YOU.
To those people in Poughkeepsie, I have no idea who you guys are. We’re not going to come across one another. For that reason, there is zero chance that I will become passionate about working with you. Zero chance.
As long as you stay there, that’s true for everyone else in Los Angeles too.
This is not a business for lone wolves – even when it comes to writers. Ever wonder why film people get so snippy and crazy and weird about one another, and then rally around the craziest, silly stuff?
It’s because we’re a family. That’s how families are.
Buddy, where were you last Thanksgiving? I was actually with some of the actors I write with, and for. This year, one of them is producing one of my scripts, and I’m producing and directing another with the guy who cooked the turkey. From the top on down, that’s how these things happen. Some call it nepotism, but it’s just love – the kind of love that can only exist in collaborative art. All the best movies thrive on this love, from Bergman to Nolan.
If you can watch Charlie’s Angels, and not see that love – if you don’t see how stupidly, retardedly, embarrassingly in love those people are with one another – when why the hell do you want to make movies in the first place?
Because it’s cool?
Buddy, it’s not actually cool… we just make it look that way.
Somehow, we fooled the agents. They fall over themselves trying to get into our little family. Sometimes they actually do it. Always, they work overtime to seem like we can’t do without them – like that kid in high school who steals beer and smokes for the theater kids. But to succeed at actually making movies, you have to see through the ruse.
Above all, the film industry is a community. We are a clique of sappy, emotional, pie-eyed, easily distracted, excitable, talent-crushing dorks, and we love one another. It’s the only way we can do what we do.
If you want to hang with the theater kids, guess where you gotta be?
February 2nd, 2009 at 4:22 pm
BTW John, that’s the best quality of the Charlie’s Angels script, and the most overlooked. Any guy who lays the tracks for a gushy lovefest like that – the connection between those women (and McG, I hear) was palpable to the point where it went way past obnoxiousness and became super fun for everyone – well, that guy’s aces in my book!
Has any script revealed what a big heart you have like that one did? You made room for so much love – that’s the “looseness” you keep referring to.
Awesome. F#3king awesome.
February 2nd, 2009 at 6:48 pm
Hands up who thinks Tennyson sounds like an assclown….
February 2nd, 2009 at 8:05 pm
How professional to divulge Mr. August’s income… <koff, koff!>
February 2nd, 2009 at 8:05 pm
Introversion, Anywhere and Duluth have a lot in common.
February 2nd, 2009 at 11:08 pm
@Andy, Carol: This may sound extreme, but don’t forget the possibility of air commuting. I’m in the games business, and a lot of that business happens in California, too. I live in Phoenix and a trip to LA by plane takes less time than rush hour traffic if you time it right. (Granted, Los Angeles rush hour is pretty bad… but nonetheless.) One of the guys here at the office made the trip daily for a couple of years. Daily will wear you out in a hurry, but a day or two a week is not a big deal. I know some people who do the Monday-Thursday thing, too. You’ll get more casual contacts living in the city, but if you or your family really can’t stand Los Angeles there are options.
I’d also like to comment on the topic of “Hollywood has no creativity / LA writers have only derivative ideas”.
The games industry gets a lot of the same criticism as film for re-hashes, sequels and formulaic stories.
Contrary to popular belief the problem is not that writers and developers have no new ideas. Believe me, they have enough fresh ideas to last a thousand lifetimes. The problem is that sadly most of these ideas will never see the light of day.
The reality is that it is very difficult to get unique ideas funded. The further off the beaten path, the harder it is because “untested” ideas are considered “risky”. Games and movies are very, very expensive to make. Reasonably enough, no one wants to take a bath on several million dollars if it bombs. Formulaic movies and games may have predictable stories, but they also have a predictable return on investment. It’s unfortunate but understandable that many financiers would much rather make an okay film that they know will make a least some money, versus a film that may be creative but with an uncertain audience. I’m not saying I agree or disagree with the practice, but I understand why it is that way.
It’s not fair to blame the writers for the situation in any case. It’s a business issue, not a creativity issue.
February 2nd, 2009 at 11:45 pm
I just want to be the one to say I love L.A. This city is my home and while I can understand how it might not be everyone’s cup of tea, some people thrive here. The way some people talk about it sucking out your soul and happiness makes it sound like there’s more dementors here than Azkaban.
It’s not a city for the fainthearted, but it’s a city with its own vitality; and while there are some real pieces of work here, there are some wonderful people here, too. I’d live here even if I wasn’t in the industry, but maybe it’s just my kind of town.
February 3rd, 2009 at 2:05 am
Cheers, John – I’ll poke around.
It seems there’s a disconnect here between those who dream of becoming screenwriters and those actually becoming screenwriters. Ironically, it’s those in the former category who can benefit most from this advice, but who’re also the least likely to take it. The dream is more important to some than the reality. Perhaps it really is better to succeed at something you can tolerate than fail at something you love, but I’ve always maintained it should be the other way around.
February 3rd, 2009 at 7:11 am
Johnny:
Especially in a town known for its tight lipped secrets and accurate information.
February 3rd, 2009 at 8:38 am
Anonymous, why don’t you use a name that can be used to identify you, when you make comments like that?
February 3rd, 2009 at 9:49 am
People who think they can move somewhere to try out the waters for a few months don’t get it. You The peope you are talking to will know that you don’t mean and are not comitted. Therefore will probably pass you up. This dream won’t jsut happen especially if you don’t know people who know people.
February 3rd, 2009 at 10:50 am
As a foreigner, I can tell you that moving to be LA would be wonderful and great and all that. But you can’t just up and move when you’re not allowed to work there (at least legally) to earn enough to pay student loans, rent. The plot thickens…
…which is why I’ve been slowly building contacts, in LA, NY and elsewhere, and may hopefully be able to make that leap at some point. Legally.
February 3rd, 2009 at 12:15 pm
…and for show-offs who love dropping names, especially their owns.
February 3rd, 2009 at 1:13 pm
John, thanks for taking the time to reopen this can of worms -you’re a patient man. Firstly, I mean no disrespect in disagreeing with you in this matter. I’ve read all your work, and would like to think myself as much a fan as those who side with you in this debate.
Anyway, to battle:
I can’t help but feel that you were selective in quoting me. If you read further down you’ll find:
“It was never my intention to disparage the creative work of L.A. writers, but to highlight and stress that several of the non-L.A. nominees feel their work has benefited from extensive travel and living where ever they please.”
I was referring to the fact that fifty percent of this year’s screenwriting Oscar nominees are non-L.A. residents (to the best of my knowledge, Beaufoy, Hare, Leigh, McDonagh, and Morgan).
By this point in the discussion, I had agreed with Kevin Arbouet that L.A. screenwriters enjoy unrivalled opportunities. That is without question.
The remaining issue was whether or not those five Oscar nominees are exceptions to the rule, or if their success disproves it. I argue the latter; one non-L.A. nominee would be an exception, but five seems a little too much to explain away.
Moreover, the profiles of the non-L.A. nominees show that they are serious writers whose nominations shouldn’t be written off as an anomaly. Some people here have argued that because several of my examples are hyphenates (that they mix screenwriting with other pursuits), that they should be disqualified as examples. To refute of this, I point to the careers of Lance Black, Hunt, Shanley, and Stanton.
John himself is a successful hyphenate (Novelist-Screenwriter-Director-Videogame/movie producer), and frankly, I believe that his career is just as exceptional, rare, and hard-to-emulate as the non-L.A. examples I listed. How many L.A. based screenwriters will get to work with Burton twice in a year? Or have John’s success rate at having screenplays produced?
Anyway, to stay on point, I never sought to dissuade writers from moving to L.A. if they are willing and able. Rather, I sought to address:
“…the majority of readers (who) will likely never live in L.A., due to family, work, or citizenship reasons. Rather than wreak their aspirations upon the rocks, I pointed out some successful examples within the company they keep.”
Finally, on a complete tangent, I feel guilty for having Roald Dahl’s career dragged over the coals. Whilst John is likely more acquainted with Dahl’s life than I, to my knowledge Dahl’s time as a screenwriter was truncated by several family tragedies. However, I would think that he had the Hollywood contacts and talent in place to pursue a screenwriting career if it had pleased him.
As for me misnaming Dahl’s book, if you spotted that, then you surely spotted the other Dahl trivia that I got wrong. Thanks for not pointing them all out -I’d have looked like a right twit.
February 3rd, 2009 at 2:09 pm
Once again, I take issue with your rather poor argument.
Those 5 aforementioned writers nominated for best screenplay are all… from England.
Where did they become successful? In England.
So your argument has essentially become, “to be a successful screenwriter, you do not have to live in LA… You could move to England, instead.”
Wonderful advice.
But that is not all. Once you move to England, start writing plays, because that is how all but one of those writers initially became successful.
February 3rd, 2009 at 2:31 pm
@ Carol, Pitchfests are like query letters. They aren’t really how the business works, which is not to say there can’t be the occasional fluke, but people also win the lottery. In other words, it’s not a career plan. I have many friends who make a living as TV and film writers. They all networked, got an agent and then got work, which is generally how it works. I don’t know anyone who’s done it any other way, and the only people whom I’ve ever heard recommend query letters, pitchfests, etc are industry outsiders or self-proclaimed insiders who want you to take the class they’re selling (which, by definition, no one who has a serious career would do).
@ The Other Side, Those academy award nominees you reference all have established careers, and some are big-named writers. (It’s also worth noting that many of them built big careers in England that catapulted them onto the world and, frankly, Hollywood stage). If John wanted to leave L.A. now and live in Des Moines, he could do it and maintain his career (though even he’d have to come to town on a fairly regular basis).
February 3rd, 2009 at 4:25 pm
@my namesake:
Morgan started in TV; Beaufoy in films; and Leigh as an actor.
I picked them as examples because they are having the most recent successes, and definitely not because I want anyone to move to England.
Non-English examples would be Alfonso Cuarón, Carlos Cuarón, Neil Jordan, Roman Polanski, Jim Sheridan, Guillermo Arriaga, Alejandro González Iñárritu, Luc Besson (apart from a brief stay), Wolfgang Becker, Stefan Ruzowitzky, and Jean-Pierre Jeunet. As far as I remember none of them are playwrights, not that there is anything at all wrong with that.
@Paula: You are right in all regards, although like the L.A. nominees, they range from first-time produced scripts (Hunt and McDonagh) to veterans (Roth, Shanley, and Leigh).
L.A. is definitely where the action is at, but in acknowledging that, I don’t think it’s accurate to completely write the rest of the world off!
By highlighting those examples, I was trying to provide an antithesis to John and Kevin’s arguments. If you’re living in L.A. then embrace it, as I’m sure the examples I listed may have done, had they themselves been born in America. However, I feel that their talent has ultimately negated any geographic disadvantage in their careers.
February 3rd, 2009 at 4:57 pm
I think John’s mission here, though, is concerned with lending advice for writers aspiring toward a successful career in the American film/TV industry.
And to be successful, you should probably be in LA.
He wouldn’t have much credibility in telling anyone how to succeed in England, Brazil, France, etc… And why should he?
Furthermore, I’d imagine it is just as easy to make it in the American film industry from Duluth as it is to make it in the British film industry from Duluth. Or, why not try topping Bollywood from Duluth?
February 3rd, 2009 at 5:34 pm
Pssh, all the great Bollywood writers live in Duluth. Everybody knows that.
February 3rd, 2009 at 6:43 pm
A few short sentences about “Duluth”.
I lived in Tennessee. I wrote a lot of good stuff there, but never sold a thing.
I moved to LA. I sat in a coffee shop, drank black coffee, and I wrote..a lot.
Within a year I had a agent and a writing assignment. “Overnight”, I was a working screenwriter.
A friend once told me,”If you wanna be in Hollywood, you gotta to be in Hollywood.” It all makes sense now.
February 3rd, 2009 at 6:56 pm
Ahhh, I had forgotten the idiocy. Missed you.
February 3rd, 2009 at 9:46 pm
I know I’ve descended into the pit of lunacy when I’m accused of name dropping the name John August on a blog written by John August, in which the context is that I’m no John August.
February 4th, 2009 at 3:29 pm
You don’t have to live in L.A. to be a working screenwriter. But it makes your life A LOT easier.
Think about it like this:
You’re at a club. You’re trying to get the attention of someone sexy. They’re in the VIP section, you can’t talk to them, all you can do is flail and hope they notice you for the right reasons and come over and talk to you. Difficult, though not impossible.
Now, you’re at the same club, trying to get their attention, but you’re IN the VIP Section. Sitting beside them. Easy.
If you’re ugly, have bad breath and warts, odds are it won’t matter if they notice you or not.
It’s not much different with screenwriting — you’re trying to get someone to notice you. It’s a lot easier to get someone to notice you when you’re close by. But even if they notice you, you still have to be able to write.
I’ve seen enough scripts to believe that writing is where almost all writers fail, not networking.
February 7th, 2009 at 11:32 pm
@ carol RE: “A poster said that his/her challenge was to write brilliantly — and that getting read was easy.”
Well… that’s a pretty broad departure from my original statement… I’m not saying, “getting read is easy”. It took me years and years of work and study and showing up, and volunteering at festivals and wrapping tourniquets around terrible scripts for hopeless writers and shooting for charities until awards dropped into my lap, before I could hand my scripts to the people I can hand them to now…
So… easy??? I don’t think so. Fun??? Abso-fuckin-lutely. — There’s no other place I’d rather get my migraines than the literati bullpen that is the screenwriter’s obstacle course.
(And not the, “Hey, let’s go on a roller-coaster.” kind of fun either… more like the, ‘Camping’ kind of fun. Wilderness survival. Can I do this? The work and the glory. That kind of thing.)
(P.S. I’m a guy.)
RE: “See, this is where I’m stumped. I’d love to move to LA — but if I can’t get read now (by way of queries/contacting producers on my own) how do I have any hope of getting read there?”
That’s precisely backward. It would be far more reasonable to say: “If I can’t get read here in LA, after devoting everything I had to going to every event for 2 years… how can I possibly hope to get read in Possum Scrape Missouri, using nothing but query letters and contact sheets?” – And even then… its possible.
RE: “That’s one hell of a leap of faith you’ve got to take, and one I’d do if I could sell something first. “
Not really. – Faith by definition is belief without evidence, and one of the only key traits of a good screenwriter, is the ABILITY to SEE what’s good. (In fact, its your stock in trade. — Everything else is just the icing that determines how fast you produce.) It’s a process of leaving only what’s good on the page, and then applying that discrimination again and again until you have 110 pages of glowing blue inertia.
If you can’t identify bad things on the page, that’s one thing… but if you can do what screenwriters do… which is identify that what’s on the page is good… then there’s not a lot of faith involved in the leap. – Your writing is your evidence. If you don’t believe in your writing… then of course its gonna be hard to convince a group of other people far away to believe in it more than you do.
RE: “I have the sick feeling it’s a scenario not many screenwriters navigate with success.”
Sure. — Don’t be those writers.
Listen to Emily: “The hard part is having the right script.”
The funny thing about that is… I would assert that: The right script is a good deal more adept at meeting people, than you are.
It will go to their houses and have many beers with them before it even thinks of introducing you to its new friends.
RE: “in your opinions are the “Pitch Fest” type of events (advertised in the trades) worth attending as an alternative (in the short run) to “living” in LA? Or are they generally non productive for a serious screenwriter?”
My suggestion Carol… from the bottom of my heart… don’t be the girl who’s pitching at the pitch fest. Be the girl who organized it.
-synthian
February 7th, 2009 at 11:50 pm
P.S.S. It wouldn’t be a leap AT ALL if you could sell something first.
February 12th, 2009 at 8:48 pm
So I’m back, I actually in school right now so I don’t have a lot of time to check back here but I figured I would respond to what was said and assumed. This is mostly my response to those that called me out directly, so here goes: I think you all are missing my point. Actually you folks that have responded to what I said are actually reinforcing that point. I’m not saying that LA is bad, I’m not saying that everyone out in LA is a doofus, but like Kevin said, shit can come from anywhere, and it does. Thousands of shit writers see the glitz and glam and think “hey I’ll go out to LA and make millions of dollars and be rich and famous!” These people tend to lack talent and go to LA for the wrong reasons. Like I said, film is an art, it doesn’t take a particular place to make good art, it takes a particular mindset. For me whenever I am working on something creative, I need to be in that particular mindset, a mindset that is at least somewhat free from distraction. The other thing that generally happens is that I get influenced or inspired by something I encounter in my everyday world. I don’t know, maybe that’s just my art school friends and me, all I know is that my art school friends have come up with things that are FAR more interesting then most of the stuff being churned out of the Hollywood system. See this is the problem, the idea that if it’s not made in Hollywood then ignore it. The idea that if you want to be taken seriously you have to move to LA otherwise, don’t bother. All I know is that if I were out in LA, involved in the “scene” out there, I wouldn’t be able to do many creative things, because I know I would be constantly distracted by the mess of ideas, and productions, and gossip, and advertisements, and on and on and on. Any outside inspiration would simply turn out to be an offshoot of someone else’s idea, like the guy who saw the Matrix 40 times. Does this not happen? Honestly is it just a fluke that some of the most interesting movies come from outside the Hollywood system? Kevin mentioned Slumdog Millionaire, a movie that in my opinion proves my point. Boyle went and spent time in India, he shot the movie in India, he used Indians. If you want to write a story about interesting people doing interesting things in this fascinating world that we live in you have to go out and experience it first hand. Am I wrong in this assumption? And in this 21st century world that we live in, why is it that things like meetings and pitches can’t happen over televised conference calls? Why can’t the screenwriter live in Boise, Idaho, buy a plane ticket, and stay in LA temporarily while his script gets optioned? I guess really what it all comes down to is- what is really important, do you want to be surrounded by the “business” and have that become your life, or do you want to focus more on creating art (not that I’m saying you can’t do both but its like the bible (I know bad reference but sometime it makes a good points) says, you can’t serve two masters)? But then what do I know, I’m just some dumb hick from fly-over country right?
February 12th, 2009 at 8:48 pm
Wow that was way too long.