Bailing on an idea
I recently got representation, and my agents fell in love with my latest spec idea. Cut to nearly six weeks later and I still haven’t been able to hash it out completely. How do you know when to keep going at an idea in an attempt to crack it and or when to call it a day and realize the idea is not as good as you first thought it was?
What do I tell my agents if I can’t crack it?
– Stef
Your agents probably got excited by the idea because they think they can sell it — and you, as the writer.
Six weeks is a long time. I say this not to panic you, but to make sure you understand that employable screenwriters need to be able to produce on demand. You promised them something and didn’t deliver — that makes them nervous. How can they convince producers to hire you when you can’t hand them the script you yourself pitched?
Yes, sometimes seemingly-good ideas collapse upon further scrutiny, and it’s ultimately better to bail. If you truly can’t make your idea work, you need to move quickly on writing something else that is similarly marketable, even if it’s not the same genre. And you need to do it now.
When your agents ask, “What are you working on?” you should be able to answer immediately and passionately. So if it’s not the project you pitched them, make sure it’s something they’re going to be excited to read.
Articles
November 14th, 2008 at 11:30 am
can you give me a better sense of the expected turnaround time? 3 weeks?
November 14th, 2008 at 11:36 am
Another question to be asked is “could this idea be resurrected/made stronger by including someone else in the process?” Different people work different ways. Sometimes having a second pair of eyes, and another person’s idea can take a good idea and make it better. Can take a dead idea and give it life.
Not always, and you might not be that type of writer, but it’s a thought.
November 14th, 2008 at 11:51 am
Stef (and john)
Wouldn’t part of the equation be whether you are passionate about the concept?
Abandoning something that you aren’t all that hot on is definitely a way to go, but if its a theme or a character that you want to expose but are finding difficulty framing it, wouldn’t it just be a better idea to put it on a backburner and see if time & the subconscious can sort it out?
just askin…
November 14th, 2008 at 12:37 pm
@Jason:
At this stage in her career, Stef needs to be able to deliver a script in eight weeks. That means she should be deep in the thick of it by week two — and if she’s fundamentally doubting her ability to write it, she’d know by then.
The problem with having already taken six weeks is that the people who are waiting for it (her agents, in this case) are reasonably expecting that she’s writing it, which she’s not.
November 14th, 2008 at 1:13 pm
Even if the overall concept is boring her — perhaps she can invent something (a character, a plot twist, a location) that excites her and helps her finish.
Whenever I find it hard to get through a piece, I just imagine the lead male character as being wicked hot. It’s easy to plot and daydream about hot dudes…
November 14th, 2008 at 3:30 pm
John’s right… the hollywood formula goes: you write a script in 8 weeks, agents/actors take 8 months to read it, producers take 8 years to get it on the big scsreen. And that’s a good case scenario.
November 14th, 2008 at 5:35 pm
John — that 8-week thing is so important, I think it’s worth elbaorating on. Most new/aspiring screenwriters, even the ones with talent, simply can’t execute within that timeframe, and that’s why they wash out.
8 weeks to script… from what point? From premise? From outline? What’s a fair barometer for aspirants to measure themselves against?
November 14th, 2008 at 5:53 pm
Also, it helps for writers to be able to spell “elaborating” correctly, and to understand the difference between “barometer” and “yardstick.” Ha!
November 15th, 2008 at 9:44 am
Eight weeks from when you finish your last script. Duh. ;-)
I personally keep around a box of index cards for all my premises, since they pop up at any time. I don’t go into premise mode for a week. When it comes time to start a new one, presuming I don’t already have a favorite, I go through the index cards and pick the ones that grab me. Spend a day or two trying to figure out which one will work. Having some idea of the ending is definitely a big plus.
I’ve decided that once I start outlining, I will finish the damn script, for better or worse. Basically for the reasons John mentioned. I’m trying to act like a consistent professional (if only I was one) instead of some flaky, artsy dude who’s all over the place. It makes me a little more discriminating when I look at those index cards.
November 15th, 2008 at 12:10 pm
I had a somewhat related incident. I signed with a manager who was very clear about me no longer being a lone writer in a cave somewhere. Okay. He was ecstatic about my writing but wanted me to write something new. However, he specifically and forcefully instructed me not to write a single thing if he didn’t approve of it before, because he knew what to sell.
But then he would disappear for weeks at a time, producing other films and just generally saying he was busy. He once asked for an outline of a pitch he loved, so he could help me with pointers before tackling the script. But then he vanished and only after several attempts at finding him he got back to me, only to ask me how the script was going. So I finished the script in about 5 weeks, sent it to him, and after another month or two (during which I’d be trying to find him) he’d ask me to send the script again because he didn’t know where he left it.
This carried on for a while and eventually we parted ways because he said he was too busy to work with me. I wonder how much more I could have done to make this a more functional relationship, but I also feel like I could have gotten more done if I hadn’t limited myself to what I was told to do. It was a valuable learning experience, but now I find myself without a manager, and with fewer specs I could potentially show.
November 16th, 2008 at 7:34 am
Don’t worry Stef, you’ve still got two weeks. Juice up on espresso and keep hitting Control+S, or however you start a new scene. If you’ve got enough talent to land agents, the result won’t be that bad. If they’re even half interested you should get some notes and a chance to rewrite.
If you really get stuck you can always throw in a wolf man or a car chase. Or maybe a wolf man who chases cars.
November 16th, 2008 at 11:32 am
William Goldman once said he takes six months to write a script. Five months to think about it and one month to do the actual writing.
November 16th, 2008 at 3:08 pm
Damn. I’m a slow poke. I’ve been doing a rewrite for eight weeks now. Does John’s eight weeks include research?
November 16th, 2008 at 9:57 pm
When I first started writing, I could get a first draft done in twelve days, then I’d spend the next YEAR rewriting them. Now it takes me twelve weeks for a first draft and it reads more like a fifth.
Stef, cowboy up and make it work. Four advil, two cups of coffee and a hot shower yanks me out of the trenches. Find what works for you and do it.
Best of luck. Please let everyone know when you sell it. :)
November 17th, 2008 at 9:57 am
Here’s how it usually breaks down for me:
Week 1: Concept, 4 page Treatment, 3-5 2-page Character Biographies, Incidental Research
Week 2: Act 1
Weeks 3-4: Act 2 (although it usually ends up taking less time)
Week 5: Act 3
This allows three weeks for rewrites, which is time enough for one major overhaul or two lesser ones, usually. If a deadline is in effect, and the writer has a day job, this is pretty much what can be accomplished so long as weeknights and one full day of weekend are devoted to meeting the deadline.
If I need more timem, I already know what my intermediate goals are and how close I am to meeting them. I pull time over the course of the week to meet my intermediate goals, and the timing of my long-term goals becomes much more manageable. That first week is usually the toughest, but if I muscle through it, the actual scriptwriting tends to go pretty smoothly.
As far as research goes, if a script requires a certain understanding to work, you should have those facts straight before you pitch it. It’s no good to tell someone you can write a story, and then find out the story doesn’t work for one reason or another.
If you’re just looking to flesh things out, that first week leaves plenty of time for googling and such.
Staying organized is central to acting and appearing professional.
November 17th, 2008 at 10:27 am
Hmm, so I’m not a screenwriter — just a regular old prose fiction writer — but I find this interesting, to see how structured a screenwriter’s timeline could/should be. What are people’s thoughts on a timeline for non-screen writing? If there are any… I realize this is mostly a place for screenwriters, but I became a regular reader because I found a lot of the writing advice to be applicable across media.
Thanks!
November 17th, 2008 at 10:38 am
Where does the 8 weeks come from? I thought your average writing deal allots 12? Or are you just saying this as in, “if you are young and hungry and not established yet, you better be able to turn something around in 8 weeks?”
November 17th, 2008 at 10:38 am
This is an interesting topic, and timely for me because I was trying to figure out what a good yearly output goal would be. Should a script take eight weeks, to include outlining and a bit of revising? Or do some of you tack on additional time for those things? I’ve heard of writers taking eight weeks for pre-writing, writing, and rewriting, and I’ve also heard of the whole process taking a lot longer? Just wondered how it was for some of you.
November 17th, 2008 at 12:24 pm
Um yes, this is facinating and useful information. John, will you elaborate a little more? Is the timeframe different for large budget/low budget films? For action vs. horror vs. drama? Is eight weeks the industry standard? Does it vary by studio? By producer or agent?
Eight weeks seems like a shockingly small amount of time to write a script from the beginning idea to the final draft. Per your response, is this timeframe for something that you’d have already done significant outlining/character arcs/setting work on BEFORE pitching? Or after the pitch are you still fumbling around for plot points and the deadline is helpful to put your ass in gear?
November 18th, 2008 at 6:51 am
the amount of time really should be 8 1/2 weeks.
November 18th, 2008 at 7:01 am
i mean 9 1/2
November 18th, 2008 at 8:57 am
My understanding is that this is the time it should take to get to a draft that can be read by a producer on a work-for-hire, at which point notes are given for rewrites. 8 weeks isn’t the shooting script, but it had better be the draft the writer feels represents their best foot forward and their take on a story.
November 18th, 2008 at 9:03 am
How about not pitching an idea until it’s written and you know it works?
As a beginner, there’s nothing more pathetic than someone saying they have a great idea, and they haven’t written a word.
You should have the sucker bagged by the time you’re ready to tell people about it, otherwise you come off as kind of a douche bag.
November 18th, 2008 at 10:24 am
Gasp! 8 weeks? Oh horror.
November 18th, 2008 at 2:38 pm
By way of example (and every contract is different), I just pulled up an old contract for a feature I did on assignment. It gave me 2 weeks for outline, 4 weeks for treatment, 3 weeks for the 2nd draft treatment and two more optional drafts of the treatment at 3 weeks each. Then we went to script with 10 weeks to deliver the first draft screenplay, 8 weeks to deliver the second draft, then 6 weeks for the next step and then 4 weeks for optional drafts.
BUT…that was on on assignment. I agree with John that agents are expecting a faster turnaround — especially here, where she already has a pitch. Waiting for inspiration is for amateurs. At the pro level (and I learned this the hard way) it’s about finding ways of working that allow you to solve problems quickly, whether it’s because the movie’s being made and a fast turnaround is critical, or because you’re feeling pressured to get it to your waiting agent (who wants to know that when the pressure is on you can deliver). And on that note, I’m off to take my own advice and get the script I’m working on cranked out now…
Thanks for this post. It’s a great reminder.
November 18th, 2008 at 2:38 pm
I like Carol’s question. How long does it take some of you to finish a novel, if any of you happen to also write novels along with screenplays?
November 18th, 2008 at 2:43 pm
Btw, I wasn’t clear. I said agents are expecting faster turnaround, but I should have also said that John’s 8 weeks sounds right.
John, like everyone else I’m wondering if you’re counting 8 weeks from concept? From treatment? From scratch? How do you use that 8 weeks (e.g. brainstorming, outlining, draft, revisions)??? Thanks.
November 19th, 2008 at 1:14 pm
I think the people writing these posts should focus more on producing quality work, then worrying about how many scripts they should have finished in one year.
If it takes months to write a spec, so be it. From my understanding, this 8-12 week timeframe is for assignment work with an established pitch/treatment/outline to get the writer started.
If you have a 20-page outline given to you, then you should be able to turn around a script in 8 weeks. If you’re starting from scratch, working on your own idea, then I think it should take as long as it has to – Why? Because you’re better off with a finished spec, than a 5-minute pitch about something you want to write when it comes to meetings.
Is this correct, John?
November 26th, 2008 at 10:20 am
Sounds like you talked your idea to death which is, well, the kiss of death.
I never announce a script to my agent until the script is half done. That way, I know I’ll finish it because I too get bored with various ideas and end up putting an incomplete script back on the shelf until I can figure it out later.
November 29th, 2008 at 9:09 pm
This is silly. A screenplay takes as long as it takes to write unless someone demands it be done earlier. Forget the 8 weeks turnaround. Write at your own pace if– you can. Writing should be more fun than business.
December 4th, 2008 at 7:34 pm
Erin, that’s why so many amateur writers will remain amateur writers because they spend a decade writing one damn script. That’s now how you make a career for yourself. If you want to spend a decade writing a single piece, go write a novel.