Why do LA people suck?
I’ve noticed no matter how close you are to someone in LA, they seem to stab you in the back. I feel like I give them my all, and never want to ask them for “help,” and they end up screwing you over.
I know some people in the industry… and the lifelong question of when to ask someone to read your work, or help you out comes to mind. I am very shy about when to ask, and never want them to think I am “using them.” But, it seems like if you don’t go out every night, and drink and party with them, they lose sight of who you are. Some pull the Kevin Williamson, and you will be introduced to them 100 times, and they still cannot remember your name…
How do you know when to ask for help, or a reference, or both, or even a foot in the door? If you don’t party with them every night is that going to hurt my chances in the long run? And when should you ask?
I don’t want to come off as a user, but it seems like everyone else is. Do I need to sink down to that level to succeed?
I know there is such thing as a missed opportunity….but..?
Thanks in advance,
– “Anonymous.”
What’s not clear from your question — if it really is a question, rather than an extended harrumph — is exactly how people are using you and/or stabbing you in the back. Let’s look at some scenarios.
Are you reading their scripts, offering helpful notes, while they can’t be bothered to do the same for you?
Are they repeating your ideas as their own?
Are they talking behind your back? Stealing your beer? Making love to your girlfriend?
Are you helping them move, without receiving reciprocal futon-hauling?
All of these are clear offenses. But my hunch is that nothing so egregious is actually occurring. You’re just finding it difficult to make headway personally or professionally. So you wonder: Is this indicative of the Hollywood culture, or specific to you?
It’s both.
Let’s divide it into more distinct questions.
Does the entertainment industry, and Los Angeles in general, tend to generate a lot of shallow friendships?
In my experience, yes. You end up knowing a lot of people, but not knowing them very well. The boundaries between “someone you know” and “friend” are indistinct. People flake out on you more, offering only half-hearted rsvps (“I’ll try to make it.”) or after-the-fact explanations-cum-apologies (“Traffic was insane.”) Keep in mind that you work in an industry in which people genuinely don’t know when they’ll be permitted to go home. An assistant working at a busy agent’s desk might be there until midnight.
Can you form real friendships in the industry? Absolutely. One of my best friends is the woman who was hired to replace me when I left my last assistant job. I got to know her through the hundred follow-up phone calls asking where a certain file was, or how to handle Crazy Person #32. But you don’t form real friendships when you approach people with the worry that they may stab you in the back.
Here’s the thing to remember: Friends are for your personal happiness. Colleagues are part of your career. You may go to drinks with both, but don’t confuse them.
When do you ask a colleague for help, or a reference, or both, or even a foot in the door?
At whatever moment you think there’s a pretty good chance they would help you. And a lot of that depends on your level of chutzpah. Some of the most successful people in the industry are the most shameless about asking people for things. Brett Ratner wrote to Spielberg, who sent him a check. Does Spielberg feel “used?” Pretty unlikely.
I was never that ballsy, but I did a good job keeping up with my peers, helping them whenever I could. When it came time to move to a larger agency, I asked their opinions and got them to call on my behalf. I’ll call a writer I’ve met once to ask about a project, or an executive, or director with a questionable reputation. That’s how it works.
And don’t assume you have nothing to offer someone who has more experience in the industry. When I have coffee with younger writers, I’m asking them as many questions as they ask me.
How do you ask for help?
By doing so directly, while giving the person an out.
“I’m applying for a reader job at New Regency. You said you know Ethan Someguy. Would you feel comfortable calling him on my behalf?”
“I wrote a short that I want to shoot next month, and I’d really like your feedback if you’d be willing to look at it.”
You then follow up nicely.
“Just wanted to check whether you were able to connect with Ethan Someguy.”
“I wanted to see if you’d had a chance to read my short.”
Is it just me?
No, Anon, it’s not. At many points in my career I’ve wanted to throw someone through a wall. But the situation you’re describing seems at least partly attributable to your attitude.
You’re not in the happiest place right now, which could be situational or could be a bigger deal. Disappointment is not depression. But if your overall mood is consistently needling downward, getting the advice of an actual psychology professional would seem to be in order. All the career advice in the world isn’t going to make you happy if larger obstacles stand in the way.
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March 26th, 2009 at 10:25 am
I really don’t think this is specific to “the industry.” I think this is just a case of people being human. Schadenfreude is just the way of the world. I think you need to be more careful about the people you choose to surround yourself with. In every job field there is back stabbing; all people want to rise to the top. You can’t really fault someone for forgetting you, even if they have met you 100 times. They probably meet people all day long and live busy lives. Next time give them your card, and have a longer than 2 second conversation. I have a great memory, but if you don’t spend the time getting to know me I doubt that I’m going to file you away for future reference.
March 26th, 2009 at 10:27 am
I would add that Hollywood is different than, say, Tallahassee, Florida. Back home in Tallahassee, there is zero professional competition. When you see your friends, you’re just seeing your friends. There’s no hidden agenda and no possibility of hidden agenda, which means those friendships are easier to develop. It’s worth developing some friendships like that in Hollywood too, either with other people who work in the industry or with people you meet somewhere else (take a class, go to yoga, play some basketball, get a job and meet people at work, etc). It will provide you with what we all need — a foundation of people who love and support you just because.
Because Hollywood is more casual than, say, a law firm, it’s easy to confuse a “contact” with a “friend”, but as John says, if you can keep it straight in your own mind, you wont be hurt when a contact doesn’t behave like a friend.
If you can remember how to be a human being, and not just someone who wants to make it in Hollywood, you’ll be fine.
March 26th, 2009 at 10:46 am
My new favorite John Augism is “extended Harrumph.” I will now add this to my spell checker dictionary and use it at least twice in a meeting. That is all.
March 26th, 2009 at 11:05 am
I’ve run into quite a few similar types in Dallas, too, whose only purpose seems to be to work out some way to get you to help them succeed whilst completely failing to reciprocate when the shoe is on the other foot.
But I’ve also met many people who are the opposite – who are genuinely willing to help in whatever way they can with no real expectation of the favor being returned (which, for me anyway, always makes me very much want to return the favor).
I’ve also had some Hollywood people volunteer to help me without my even asking, even though there was really nothing in it for them except a chance to be nice and help someone.
Of course, it could be that I’m just a great guy that people naturally want to help.
March 26th, 2009 at 11:51 am
My rule of thumb is, “Don’t go for the only door.” So if everyone is trying to get ahead by making lots of shallow friends, it’s a waste of time to do the same. I’ve watched as an acquaintance got a job as a staff writer on a very popular show, and everyone came out of the woodwork to suddenly buddy-up. It made me sick to my stomache.
Not only do these new friends get lost in the crowd, I believe they leave an impression of desperation.
I try to be friendly to everyone, but minimize exposure to networkers. I think “The Tipping Point” mentions that a typical person has a social circle of 125 people, so periodically I delete people from my facebook friend list who I haven’t talked to in a while, aiming for 125 friends. If the person notices I deleted them, I apologize and keep them in the list for life.
Sadly, of the dozens of people I’ve deleted, only one noticed. On the plus side, it’s cut down all the one-way favors.
March 26th, 2009 at 12:17 pm
You know, New York was a lot like that…except with better public transportation.
March 26th, 2009 at 12:22 pm
People who stereotype (like, say, an entire industry or city) tend to do so because they want to believe they see the “larger picture,” but really they don’t… They tend not to even have a very realistic view of themselves.
Ops, I just stereotyped stereotypers. I wonder what that says about me?
March 26th, 2009 at 12:38 pm
The people I’ve met in the industry have generally been kinder and more generous than I expected, which has been a real blessing. However, they still don’t give a shit about what I’m writing and they need me to understand they can’t just miraculously get me a job.
Then again, I didn’t meet with them for that reason, either.
Also, guys, you do NOT want to work for Ethan Someguy. Dude’s just a complete nightmare.
March 26th, 2009 at 12:55 pm
It’s just as easy to say that “LA people suck” as it is to say that MidWesterners are “nice.” I’ve been in sales for nine years, in both Michigan and Los Angeles,and I can tell you with certainty that people “suck” everywhere. They also impress and inspire me every day. In my experience, people focus on what they want to be true. Breaking into the film business is very difficult for some and easy for others. If you find it difficult, it’s much easier to say that people aren’t helping you than it is to take ownership of the fact that you’re not working hard enough.
You only need two things to be successful in Los Angeles. The first is talent and you can do a lot with it. The second is perseverance and you make that decision every day. If you don’t have those two things, your connections don’t mean anything anyway.
March 26th, 2009 at 1:20 pm
I got an actor friend of mine a chance to audition for the lead in an indie feature that’s going into production this year – I even sent them his head shot. The producers contacted him and he never made the audition, I guess because he was too busy waiting tables. I no longer speak to him.
I have other actor friends who have bent over backward to take advantage of opportunities I and others have brought to their attention. Those are the people I’m still friends with.
Sure, there are people in this town who suck. Most of them will be leaving soon, and as they disappear you see who your real friends are.
I love LA because most people in this town will help you out and support you if you return the favor.
March 26th, 2009 at 1:22 pm
I just wanted to temper Drongowski’s advice, which I think is good, with this reminder: Luck is a factor, too. Talent and perseverance put you in a position to snag opportunities when they pass by, but a solid year of missed chances, or chances that fall apart because of happenstance, can start to feel like something bigger and more meaningful than a bad run of luck.
So there’s this: I think the best way to get help from people is to give them good reason to want to help you, and then make them happy that they did.
Obligation, custom, and favors owed… they’re not the same.
March 26th, 2009 at 2:29 pm
I’ve never lived there but LA is the crown jewel of a very competitive industry. I recently got out of a job where I was heavily into politics. The same sort of fakeness and phoniness is prevalent when you get near the top of any industry.
March 26th, 2009 at 2:34 pm
When I was an assistant, I once heard one agent say to another: “You don’t have friends in this town, you just have people who mutually agree to use each other.” The other said, “That’s so true.” I immediately doubted my friendship with both of them.
There’s a lot of great people around too, but those stories just aren’t as entertaining. Where’s the conflict?
March 26th, 2009 at 2:51 pm
Excellent advice, John! This applies to New York as well. I should pass this on to anyone who wants to break into front-office finance (our equivalent of above-the-line media).
March 26th, 2009 at 3:06 pm
This hilarious blog post from VanityFair.com about being booted from the Hunt Committee for committing a “friendship” faux pas seemed apropos:
http://www.vanityfair.com/online/style/2009/03/its-hard-out-there-for-social-climbers.html#entry-more
Who wants to be on the Hunt Committee anyway? And who wants to build his career on the backs of a bunch of drunken “friends.” There are some amazing people in this town who are glad to help when they can.
March 26th, 2009 at 3:31 pm
Dude… Pen… Paper… Butt. In. Chair.
March 26th, 2009 at 3:33 pm
Even the people who hate you will take you up-stream if you do that first part with passion and a bullet.
March 26th, 2009 at 4:19 pm
This is one of the reasons why film school is so incredibly important. Those who don’t go lose the opportunity to build up one’s network before they even hit LA. The friends you make in film school are your friends for life, because it is they who will get you that first job, and vice versa.
One of my best friends from college and I have agreed that once we make the move out to LA we will have each others backs for life. Not in an “I’ll use you and you’ll use me” kind of way, but in a “I really want to see you succeed, and will put my ass on the line because I want you to” kind of way.
The cool thing is, he wants to a be a director…and I want to be the screenwriter…and he loves everything I write. On the to first drafts I have written so far, he’s told me straight up that if they don’t sell, he wants to direct them. It’s a great partnership.
It’s hard to really gain a circle of truly mutual friends in Hollywood, which is why it is best to create your network in college. That way, when you all move out there like the flock of sheep you know you are…you will already have one formed.
March 26th, 2009 at 4:19 pm
What I meant was: Yes… the world is moochy and icky. – But part of your goal is to have something that the world, needs. — So you say, “I won’t do things for the wrong reasons.” And you remember: Every bit of energy you spend hating the players is energy you could have put into you.
March 26th, 2009 at 5:31 pm
John, I love that you took the time to answer this question. I come across this sort of attitude all the time. Certainly Anon is frustrated, and it sounds like his personal feelings were hurt, but you were carefully stern with him. The resulting response feels more like a cautionary lesson for us than a response to his initial concerns. I’ve been concerned about meeting too many people out here, and with how to avoid being a jerk when I have so little time to be the friend I want to be, rather than being screwed over. This post fortified my philosophies about the entertainment industry at just the right time. Thanks.
March 26th, 2009 at 9:21 pm
Connectionless, with plans to sink Titannic I’m never short on ideas
March 26th, 2009 at 10:18 pm
Aww shucks, Anon…
Why don’t you go down to Taco Bell on Centinela and La Cienega. There’s a middle-aged black man standing in the drive thru asking for spare change. He’s blind and his left hand looks infected.
Maybe you can snag a quarter. Maybe call someone who cares.
March 26th, 2009 at 10:37 pm
My thoughts on Mr. Anonymous:
If you seem to notice people are “stabbing you in the back,” then you’ve been done a favor — you know who not to work with.
If the people you know only want to drink and party, and you’re not into that, then meet people in L.A. who don’t drink and party. I don’t drink and party, so it doesn’t do me any favors to maintain close relationships with people who do.
There are only about a billion writers out here, so if you’re not meeting people you like, there’s only one person to blame — you.
If you’re as shy as you say you are, you have got to fight that. Go make some business cards. Before you go to any kind of networking event or party, make a deal with yourself that you’re going to pass out ten of them. Find those other guys or girls in the room who look shy, and strike up a conversation. Chances are, you’re going to find somebody who has more in common with you than those easy-to-meet party animals.
March 27th, 2009 at 7:50 am
I’m just charmed by the fact that the theoretical Important Person had the generic last name of Someguy, but John was very very sure his first name was Ethan. It’s always some Ethan or other, isn’t it?
March 28th, 2009 at 12:32 am
Thanks for answering this question John. I would have thought that this question is something that you or most people would just have to ignore, But that was an insightful response. I too have plenty of trouble feeling good about such casual friendships and I constantly fight that downheartenedness that comes with that. And yeah i think its life unfortunately, though LA (and the industry) might be a microcosm of that. That was the type of rant I would avoid writing, and try and put out of mind, yet your response is all great advice.
A few of the commenter’s here have displayed a more what-I-expected answer to Anon’s issues.
March 28th, 2009 at 11:08 am
I assumed it was Ethan because it was written the day after an episode of “Lost” aired (and Ethan Rom or Ethan Goodspeed would’ve been too obvious).
March 29th, 2009 at 10:03 am
It is specific to the industry. Virtually everyone in the film business is a liar. They’ll lie about anything. I’m also in the publishing business and it’s funny how people in the publishing business are so straight-forward whereas it’s lies galore in the film business. Also, writers of books are far more secure and less psychotic than writers of scripts.
March 30th, 2009 at 7:41 pm
I honestly believe in people are your mirrors, whatever you put out there you get back or in other words their behavior is a response to your actions. If you want people in your life who are superficial and keep going to their parties to get something from them, that’s exactly what you get in return superficiality, a knife in your back and so on. This is what works for me, life is what you make of it. If you keep manifesting good people in your life and put that energy out there, that’s what you get back. Like a car you love and all of a sudden you see it in every corner. If people always get stabbed in the back, maybe they should look at why this is happening to them. Most people just make the same mistakes all over again in their life with relationships and everything else. If you don’t like it, change it. I work in the industry and I do have friends, lots of friends…yes real ones even in the industry. When I moved to LA from europe I had a lot of superficial friends, which I didn’t know at that point. So I completely understand where most people here come from. A lot of people in the industry can be liars, using people…why u stick around them..cause you wanna use them too, to get your scripts read and movies sold.
March 31st, 2009 at 9:19 am
If you regard the movies as a business, you really can’t expect any more personal consideration than you’d get in oil drilling or fast-food marketing. The fact that so much success in L.A. or NY is based on “who you know” doesn’t alter that basic fact, it only increases the back-stabbing or the sting of indifference because relationships are so much more important.
Also bear in mind that very few people will want to help someone more talented or more intelligent than they are. That sort of generosity may come from a patron, but rarely from a competitor, or potential competitor.
March 31st, 2009 at 1:18 pm
John,
Great, practical advice. You’re really only in charge of yourself — if other people flake out, ignore you, or “stab you in the back,” there’s not much you can do about them other than to move on.
Feel free to ask people for help if you need it and you’ve otherwise done what’s needed. Don’t send a script that could get better to the guy who can get you an agent; get it good enough first because he’s putting his reputation on the line for you. (on the flip side, also don’t never ask for fear of not being ready — you have to find that line.)
April 1st, 2009 at 11:01 am
If I saw someone making an effort to hand out ten business cards at a party, I would definitely remember that person — as a douche.
April 1st, 2009 at 7:57 pm
Korin, you prefer wannabes to spread their legs (or ass cheeks) instead?
April 2nd, 2009 at 6:50 pm
@Korin
…pretty funny.
April 20th, 2009 at 5:19 pm
Do you give your name at these parties, or just go with ‘Anonymous’?