Quoting books in a script
In my script, characters quote from several articles and textbooks to reinforce the validity of their discourse.
My question is: Besides in-text quotation marks, how should I go about crediting the books referenced? Are bibliographies fairly common or allowable in the screenplay format? Or is this only necessary in academic-type publications?
I’ve searched myriad style guides but I find little regarding endnotes/references/bibliographies for screenplays. And I’d like to get it right.
– Dave
New York City
Do you hear that? That BEEP BEEP BEEP sound? That’s a metaphorical truck carefully backing out of the wrong alley you’ve driven it into.
Screenplays don’t need to cite references because they don’t quote things. Or at least, they shouldn’t. Remember: a script is really a transitional document on the way towards creating a movie. Is your film going to have footnotes? Will a bibliography be printed on the popcorn bag?
Sure, you could have a character reading aloud from a textbook:
MARY
Maybe the enthalpy was increasing?
Todd grabs a chemistry textbook off the shelf. Flips through to find a dog-eared page.
TODD
No, see, it says here on page 56 that “exothermic reactions result in higher randomness -- or entropy -- of the system as a whole. They are characterized by a decrease in enthalpy.”
But this would be terrible. Terrible.
In fact, I believe this can be generalized into a rule:
Any scene in which a character quotes from a real or imaginary text will be awful.
I will quickly add the Whedon corollary:
“…unless the unlikely existence of the text is part of the joke.”
Dave, the reason you’re tempted to quote articles or textbooks is that you’re desperately looking for some authority to support your ideas. But the authority needs to come from within your script, not outside. Some examples:
In The Matrix, anything Laurence Fishburne says has authority.
In Iron Man, Tony Stark’s suit works because the movie says it does.
In Up, a bunch of helium balloons can lift a house because it’s charming, damnit.
Cut those quotes. Let characters say what they need to say in their own voices.
Filed under: QandA, Rights and Copyright, Words on the page
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July 31st, 2009 at 10:52 am
Does that mean you think the National Treasure movies are terrible? They quote all over the place.
July 31st, 2009 at 10:54 am
What about “Tobin’s Spirit Guide” in Ghostbusters? Or does that count as a Whedon exception?
July 31st, 2009 at 11:06 am
What about “The Neverending Story”? Huh? What about that! The whole movie is the kid reading the darn book. ;-P
July 31st, 2009 at 11:09 am
And where would Otto in A Fish Called Wanda be if he couldn’t quote Nietzsche?
July 31st, 2009 at 11:17 am
This post made me laugh. Excellent way to start a Friday.
But speaking of Whedon and books, my favorite joke from Buffy involved reading from a book:
He shows her an illustration. Her eyes widen in horror.
INSERT – PICTURE of Gachnar. A horrific, powerful-looking, visage. Underneath, a few Gaelic words.
BUFFY
Okay, let’s shut it down.
XANDER
Whatever we’re doing, let’s do it fast.
GILES
(referencing book)
I have it -- “The summoning spell for Gachnar can be shut down in one of two ways. Destroying the Mark of Gachnar...”
Without warning, Buffy gets down on one knee, punches through the floor, and pries up the splintered floorboards, bisecting the icon, destroying it.
The SOUNDS abruptly stop. Buffy smiles smugly, pleased with herself. Giles’ tone becomes quite peevish.
GILES
“... is not one of them and will, in fact, immediately bring forth the Fear Demon, itself.”
He looks at the desecrated symbol and glares at Buffy.
Perfect.
July 31st, 2009 at 11:32 am
This makes basic sense, but you’re not allowing for the obvious instances in which “high-brow” characters quote from literature or poetry (usually from memory), which happens all the time.
Yes, definitionally-quoting in order to clarify something that has happened or will happen is hackish. But to say that characters should never reference anything because it is “terrible” is a bit of a stretch. (Granted, I do tend to find the professor who quotes Keats when looking at storm-ravaged coastal town to be a generally annoying moment of overwrought sentiment in film.)
Still, although this is good as a general guideline, a Concrete Law it’s not. (Dare I admit that the moment Picard quotes Moby Dick in First Contact has always stuck with me as a great moment in an otherwise not great film?)
July 31st, 2009 at 11:41 am
But it happens all the time (e.g. in scientist or history movies)! Or somebody quoting from a newspaper while s/he’s researching something on a murder as in a thriller.
OMG, Brendan Fraser just pops up in my head reading The Journey to the Center of the Earth. ; )
July 31st, 2009 at 11:54 am
@Michael:
You’re right. The National Treasure films are filled with direct quotes. On the other hand, the Indiana Jones films barely have any that I can recall.
Which is the better franchise?
July 31st, 2009 at 11:58 am
Darn tootin’, about UP!
July 31st, 2009 at 12:02 pm
1)The Whedon corrollary is awesome. I remember Harold Ramis talking about a similar thing in his AV Club interview.
2)This also takes me back to the bigger point: If you can avoid talking about something and just give us a visual demonstration, that’s the best. I can talk about the crown that gives the guy telekinetic powers, or I can have him smiling as the the glass behind him shatters and then have him rip out someone’s skeleton.
3)Planting micro demonstrations within an expositiony scene is also a way to avoid dry chunks. If there’s a way to integrate it with character business, that’s even better.
July 31st, 2009 at 12:36 pm
Don’t forget the lovely sequence in Buffy where various characters read “The Call of the Wild” to newly wolfish Oz.
July 31st, 2009 at 1:19 pm
Ha ha ha, I love your answer. And thanks to Nima for the Buffy joke.
July 31st, 2009 at 1:48 pm
But John, isn’t Morpheus quoting almost verbatim from Jean Baudrillard?
July 31st, 2009 at 1:52 pm
One could argue that the books in Buffy the Vampire Slayer are a character in themselves as evidenced by the great gag used in Superstar when Riley asks if the magic from the books they are studying really works.
WILLOW: They work Riley but they take concentration. Being attuned with the forces of the universe.
XANDER: Right you can’t just go ‘librum incendere’ and expect..
(The page of Xander’s book bursts into flame. He slams the book closed, extinguishing the fire.)
GILES: Xander don’t speak Latin in front of the books.
Also, although Nima’s example is wonderful, when I saw it was going to be a quote from that episode, I expected the quote from a book that was the punchline for the whole episode.
BUFFY: What's the matter?
GILES: I should have translated the Gaelic inscription under the illustration of Gachnar.
BUFFY: What's it say?
GILES: Actual size.
It is not my favorite episode but that line is one that I have always loved.
July 31st, 2009 at 2:14 pm
In my current script I have an exchange that goes something like this (I’m quoting from memory):
CHARACTER 1 Nietzsche said war is the grand sagacity of the spirit. Strength is restored by wounding.
CHARACTER 2 Nietzsche also said that war is training for freedom.
These characters are aristocratic Germans in the early 20th century. Is this type of thing terrible?
July 31st, 2009 at 2:34 pm
Isn’t every actor quoting the screenwriter! ;D
July 31st, 2009 at 2:35 pm
I’m pretty sure that the characters in MY NIGHT AT MAUD’S read and quote from Pascal’s PENSÉES multiple times. And that’s a pretty great fucking movie. I’m also pretty sure a lot of people read and quote shit in ALL THE PRESIDENTS MEN. And that’s a pretty great fucking movie. In ADAPTATION, Kaufman reads from Susan Orlean’s book extensively. And that’s a pretty great etc.
Point is, I can think of so many examples where quoting from a text was used in a perfectly acceptable way that this “rule” stops making sense.
July 31st, 2009 at 3:11 pm
I love it when a professional screenwriter takes the time to answer a question and gets all the, “But OMG, how about that one movie where…” responses. This is why most writers, producers, editors, etc just hit the delete button or toss a manuscript into the garbage instead of wasting time with advice that’s destined to fall on deaf ears.
Instead of taking five seconds to consider that maybe the writer knows a lot of readers and producers, and has a pretty good idea of what people in the industry consider amateurish or undesirable, let’s all just argue.
Here’s a general rule of thumb: If you’re a new writer with few or no credits, and something you’re trying to do isn’t covered in most screenwriting guides…don’t do it. When you’re established and have some experience under your belt, then you can play around with conventions. And if a professional writer tells you not to do something, assume that there’s a good chance the people reading your script may feel the same way.
July 31st, 2009 at 3:28 pm
And don’t forget Jules’s bible quote in Pulp Fiction, or the instructions for the Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch.
I think what separates the successful instances of quoting/reading on screen from what the OP wants to do is this: In the successful cases are ones where the CONTENT of the quote is immaterial to the rest of the movie. You could replace the entire “The path of the righteous man …” with a notation such as “(Angry, threatening, unforgiving Old Testament quote goes here)”, and the entire rest of the script would make as much or little sense to the reader without it.
In contrast the OP appears to want to use quotes to convey information to the audience. Which, quite possibly, never works.
July 31st, 2009 at 3:48 pm
Now John, you’re forgetting THE DEAD POETS SOCIETY (one of my all time favorite titles for a film) in which Robins Williams does do quotes of poetry from time to time, reading from it, and it works, since he’s a teacher of poetry.
Of course, he also starts by having a student read a quote from the foreward of a textbook, and then instructs everyone to RIP it out as that it’s useless for understanding poetry, so in a sense, the film plays with your rule in a joyful way.
@Henning, I’m pretty sure QT made up the biblical quote in Pulp Fiction, I don’t believe it’s a real passage you can find in the bible.
July 31st, 2009 at 3:49 pm
Ack! I wrote “foreward” when I meant “foreword”.
July 31st, 2009 at 3:51 pm
@Dilliah: It does not sound to me as if John is talking about “what people in the industry consider amateurish”, based on his experience with Hollywood. He’s talking about “what’s likely to work with an audience”, based on his experience with storytelling. That’s quite a different thing.
July 31st, 2009 at 3:51 pm
Indiana Jones also gets away with reading some stuff from some stuffy old books and makes it work, in fact, he read something off of an old shield of a dead knight under a library in Venice, and it kinda worked!
July 31st, 2009 at 4:15 pm
@Joshua: Sure, but that’s unrelated to the point I was trying to make. Or perhaps it’s the very point: It doesn’t matter whether the quote is actually verbatim from the Bible, because in the movie’s context, its content doesn’t matter. The only thing the viewer needs to get from it is its general mood — lots of Biblical style, five-dollar-phrases such as “righteous”, “vengeance”, “valley of darkness”, “shepherds”, and precisely how they fit together, and whether they make much sense thus togetherfit, is immaterial.
Same for Dead Poets Society. The viewer does not actually need to listen to the horribly mechanical theory of poetry from the textbook; it suffices to get a general idea of its style. No viewer’s appreciation of the scene have ever suffered because he immediately forgets which axis is the horizontal and which is the vertical, or even which abstract qualities in general were to be plotted along the axes. The only thing we need to notice is that professor Keating really dislikes the book he has to teach from, and uses that dislike to fuel an impromptu lesson in the non-sanctity of authorities.
July 31st, 2009 at 4:57 pm
You’re all missing the point with your nitpicking. The majority of the examples listed are “texts” created by the screenwriter. That’s ok. -ish. At least you can find good examples of it. I think the original question was about quoting another (contemporary) author’s work in yours. That’s not cool.
July 31st, 2009 at 6:24 pm
I really think Dave’s question needs a little more context. Who are these characters, and under what circumstances are they discoursing? If they’re professors or diplomats or West Point instructors or something debating topics per their jobs and advancing the plot via their discussions, maybe these citations are necessary. I mean, some people actually, really do talk like that: Oliver Stone, for instance, is constantly qouting all kinds of people in interviews and such.
OR–is it an instance of dialouge scenes that are intended to reinforce a point he wants to make, not explore the characters or move the story forward. You run across this kind’ve thing a lot in what can only be called amateur scripts: scenes where characters make speeches to each other explaining why Hunting Is Wrong or The Suffering Of The Palestinians or whatever. (No disrespect to the Palestinians, I’m just remembering actual examples.) The idea of the characters citing articles and textbooks in a scene like that is particularly dismal…
July 31st, 2009 at 7:16 pm
Apparently, after the studio found out how disastrous the test screenings of “Dune” were, they hastily typed up a one-page hand-out to be mimeographed and handed out to all theater-goers across the country explaining the missing parts of the story.
So, yes, there was once a movie with printed back-matter.
July 31st, 2009 at 7:28 pm
Guys, obviously there’s no shortage of bar-raising texts in which the Sage archetype brings forth a nearly ritualistic callback to a founding work of literature, not the least of which is the VERY biblical phrase: “Chariots of Fire”, or the need to, “SOUND YOUR PRIMAL YAUP!” – But I think the phrase you might not be looking at is: “the AUTHORITY needs to come from within your script”.
Do THESE PEOPLE FEEL, in THEIR WORLD, that this text holds truth and destiny? And/or indicate, that at least once, someone has been there before them?
Boondock Saints may open with an archival prayer, or the lost people of Atlantis may repeat, “The Prophesy” –> But there’s a difference between handing your main character his OWN concise & iconic sentence-of-destiny… and calling forth an external pseudo-intellectual-authority to back things you can’t illustrate just because you want to heart huckabees.
July 31st, 2009 at 7:36 pm
I have to add that Einstein NEVER WROTE that, “With a powerful enough lens one could actually see around the curvature of the universe.” – But EXCLUSIVELY within the world of “PAYCHECK” and to those characters alone, that shit had a very relevant authority.
July 31st, 2009 at 11:35 pm
@Michael
I think National Treasure works because the quotes are coming from Ben Gates or some other figure with credibility in history. They don’t actually pull out pocket constitutions every time they need to quote it.
John is right about leaving out the footnotes and never allowing a character to actually quote directly from a book on screen, but slinging some little-known factoids from some well-known (or not-so) documents doesn’t necessarily hurt a scene.
August 1st, 2009 at 1:13 am
I guess Mr August’s answer was based on the most likely case scenario and what will most likely work. There are obviously hundreds of examples of movies and TV shows where characters quote other people’s work and it works, so saying “just don’t do it” is probably a little much. But based on fairly superficial information, it’s hard to give exact advice that will work perfectly for this particular case. General advice from a person with far more experience in the business is valuable, but probably shouldn’t be viewed as a manual, because general is general, and you could ruin a perfectly good piece of work based on advice that wasn’t applicable to it in the first place.
August 1st, 2009 at 1:58 am
The last two lines of the Pulp Fiction bible passage “And I will strike down…” are actual, bona-fide Ezekiel 25:17, though some translations may differ. The preceding part is a hodgepodge that’s either made up or from Psalm 23.
August 1st, 2009 at 4:46 am
Sorry to break up the discussion but could someone provide a citation for the Whedon corollary quote…
August 1st, 2009 at 7:13 am
@ Mark Caldwell
I don’t know if he’s ever said it aloud or not… but its a pretty solid observation of style. — Like how Egon Spengler used to always pull out his copy of the “Marx & Engles Encyclopedia-of-the-Paranormal” (or whatever it was called) in the old Ghostbusters cartoons.
BUFFY: But what’re we gonna do about the rampaging marionette problem?
GILES: Buffy… would you run down to the basement and bring me the Demon-Gauntlet-of-Puppet-Extradition?
BUFFY: You mean the scary mitten thingy?
GILES: Yes dear… the scary mitten thingy.
BUFFY: Okee-dokes.
and so on…
August 1st, 2009 at 9:14 am
Cheers to Dillah, who’s right on point. Further, I think some commenters are missing what appears to be the greater point, which is that when you get yourself into one of these problem areas, it’s often best to go back to Step One and see how you got there.
True, as one commenter noted, people quoting from texts is done “all the time” in movies. What this fails to consider is that most movies suck. And I do not believe Mr. August plans to provide advice on how to write screenplays that become sucky movies. He wants us to write great screenplays that become good, and hopefully even great, movies.
Anyone who feels like being argumentative should reread the discussion and especially consider the Whedon-related bits: the reason the Buffy scenes work so well is because they are a PARODY of the brutally cliche scenes of people reading shit out of textbooks. And that was back in the mid-90s. If that was cliche then, imagine how cliche it is now.
It’s not a hard-and-fast rule, people, but unless you can find some extremely inventive or ironic take on the “quoting shit from a textbook” chestnut, might it not be a good idea to take the professional screenwriter’s word for it and find a way around it?
August 1st, 2009 at 12:11 pm
To hazard an uneducated guess, my sense is that having a character quote or read will work best when the scene is not about the information being quoted or read.
Giles’s use of books is part of what defines his character. Buffy’s impulsiveness/impatience with dry text works in a similar way. What the text actually says is irrelevant, except that it turns into a joke.
I think it’s the same with Pulp Fiction and Dead Poet’s Society.
August 1st, 2009 at 3:18 pm
I’m the one who asked the question.
First, my thanks to Mr. August for addressing it. Second, to add to the subsequent debate, allow me to provide more context.
My characters aren’t pausing in their dialogue to say, “Well, to quote from ‘Book X’ ” … because I agree with much of the posts: that would be awful.
The characters instead quote real material, but do so in passing.
So as the writer, I wish to give credit for these sources; though within the screenplay, authorship seems to belong to the characters themselves. So the quoted material, essentially, is invisible. Hence why I’d like to know how best to provide credit.
With regard to Mr. August’s comment, “… the reason you’re tempted to quote articles or textbooks is that you’re desperately looking for some authority to support your ideas,” respectfully I have to disagree, at least in this case.
I’m absolutely sick of seeing films take liberty with reality — films that exaggerate emotion or break the laws of physics in order to have an over-the-top car chase.
While I could easily eliminate the quoted material, it serves the purpose of linking the fictional narrative to our external reality.
So my question has not to do with the philosophy of any screenwriter on whether something is “good” or “bad,” because frankly, I don’t care — everyone has an opinion.
My question has to do with the technical aspect of seeking copyright permissions for the bits of quoted material sprinkled invisibly throughout the original story: credits to be included in, I know this is crazy: the end credits of a film.
Is it necessary to seek permissions prior to selling the script? Or, hypothetically, is this something that will be done by the legal department of the potential buyer?
Answer me that, everyone, rather than launching into subjective tirades on what constitutes a good or a bad film.
August 1st, 2009 at 3:19 pm
You can always get away with a Bible quote, if that’s your thing. But I bet if you try hard enough, you can find a workaround to quoting stuff directly in your script.
August 1st, 2009 at 6:02 pm
While I think Mr. August’s answer is absolutely correct in MOST circumstances, I can think of a few times when characters quoting other sources is acceptable. For example, nearly everything that comes out of Gene Wilder’s mouth in “Willy Wonka & the Chocolate Factory” is a quote from some literary work–which works for the character, since he’s a recluse, and it seems likely that he has spent the past twenty years of his life living with a tribe of orange dwarfs, with nothing to do but make candy, sing songs, and read. While I don’t think it would be necessary for Wonka to follow up each line of dialogue with parenthetical citation, I can see how Dave would be concerned that, in a similar situation, he might be committing some sort of copyright infringement.
August 1st, 2009 at 10:04 pm
It seems to me if characters are quoting large portions of something in passing without saying what it’s from, you are essentially plagarizing the book you are quoting from, which is probably why you want to give credit. If you are not crediting the source in context (i.e. in the dialogue), you might want to think about either doing just that, or rewriting the dialogue so characters get across the idea you want without using a word-for-word quote. This latter option seems the best for you, if you want to look like your characters are coming up with someone else’s ideas, then rewrite the dialogue rather than actually quoting someone else’s ideas.
There are some quotes that are unattributed in film, especially well known ones (the Bible or Shakespeare), but most are. Look at all the examples people have been listing. Nearly all of them are identified as quotes within the films.
Regardless, never ever include a bibliography with a script. It screams amateur.
August 1st, 2009 at 10:22 pm
@Dave: to answer your question directly, don’t bother with a bibliography or footnotes. If your movie ever starts getting made, rest assured that you’ll have plenty of time to tell the right people. If the quoting is brief and paraphrased anyway, you’re not going to run into a problem.
By the way, if you’re sick of seeing films take liberty with reality, can I suggest making a documentary instead?
August 1st, 2009 at 10:51 pm
I think you all are missing the point. People may quote from books in movies occasionally, but they do not source their quotes. And they do it once, maybe twice. The question writer seems to be under the misconception that characters can quote contiually from other sources and that these quotes must then be cited.
And that would be a long, bad movie.
August 2nd, 2009 at 4:55 am
@ Dave it sounds to me that what you are doing is analogous to Moulin Rouge; in which various lyrics appear – sometimes as dialogue and at other points as a mix of dialogue becoming song. If you could see a copy of that script it might help you decide how to do what you are trying to do.
August 2nd, 2009 at 12:07 pm
Dave, you’re a writer; your job is to write. Let the lawyers do their job and find out what you can and can’t get away with.
August 2nd, 2009 at 12:27 pm
On the one hand, I totally agree with John. On the other, there are times when the failure to quote a source rises almost to the level of plagiarism.
One example that leaps to mind is in CROUPIER. Toward the end of the film, Clive Owen’s characters has a voice over that runs:
“The world breaks everyone, and afterwards many are strong at the broken places. But those that will not break, it kills – it kills the very good, and the very gentle, and the very brave, impartially. If you are none of these, you can be sure it will kill you, too, but there will be no special hurry. “
Which is lovely. It’s also lifted verbatim from Hemingway – “The Sun Also Rises” if I’m not mistaken. I don’t know whether there was a citation in the credits, but if not, there should have been. And perhaps there should have been one in the screenplay as well, because while Paul Mayersberg may be a good writer, no one should make the mistake of crediting him for the beauty of that voice over.
So it doesn’t seem to be as cut and dry as some – even John – would have it.
August 2nd, 2009 at 12:29 pm
Or maybe it’s “A Farewell to Arms.”
August 2nd, 2009 at 3:17 pm
I’ve decided when I write my thesis, the bibliography will simply say, “Because it’s charming damnit”. Thanks, John! But I’m still not citing you.
August 2nd, 2009 at 3:35 pm
The W.H. Auden quote in Four Weddings and a Funeral caused a massive surge in popularity of the poem and its author.
And it worked damn well.
August 2nd, 2009 at 8:59 pm
One of the greatest films ever.
August 3rd, 2009 at 6:25 am
@Rick Gershman:
“True, as one commenter noted, people quoting from texts is done “all the time” in movies. What this fails to consider is that most movies suck.”
Most movies do suck, but what I’m questioning is whether quoting texts automatically contributes to this suckiness in any significant way. It really doesn’t.
“And I do not believe Mr. August plans to provide advice on how to write screenplays that become sucky movies. He wants us to write great screenplays that become good, and hopefully even great, movies.”
Sure, but just because he doesn’t plan it, doesn’t mean it can’t happen. Dilliah’s post was mostly “argument from authority” bullshit that doesn’t defend August’s position in any way. I don’t think a writer is right all the time just because people are still paying him.
“And that was back in the mid-90s. If that was cliche then, imagine how cliche it is now.”
I’m sorry, but saying “quoting texts” is a cliche is absurd, like saying that a character running is a cliche. It’s way too general. It can be done in many different ways, with different purposes.
“It’s not a hard-and-fast rule, people, but unless you can find some extremely inventive or ironic take on the “quoting shit from a textbook” chestnut, might it not be a good idea to take the professional screenwriter’s word for it and find a way around it?”
Again, do I have to find an extremely inventive or ironic take on “running”, because it’s been done before?
I think the fact that people are citing so many examples against this rule (and I can think of many more) probably means it shouldn’t be “generalized into a rule”.
And you know what else can get annoying? “Witty”, Joss Whedon-y dialogue. Doesn’t mean I’m gonna go out say “Any scene with Joss Whedon-y dialogue will be awful”. It can work (heck, even Whedon makes it work sometimes!).
August 3rd, 2009 at 12:59 pm
Though it is absurd to think of including a bibliography with a script, John is off base here. The example he contrived for quoting a book within a script (“exothermic reactions result in higher randomness — or entropy — of the system as a whole. They are characterized by a decrease in enthalpy”) is a deck-stacking exaggeration to mock what is otherwise a plausible possibility.
Either that, or John has never read a book, and assumes every book contains nothing but incomprehensible scientific jargon. Science has no place in movies, of course, because movies are supposed to be stupid.
Movies reference pop culture all the time. They are not allowed to reference books? There are even movies BASED ON books. John, please, where are you getting this?
August 3rd, 2009 at 1:11 pm
I can think of one exception – when characters quote from a book as part of a cipher or code – think of Red Dragon’s secret code embedded in the bible or a cookbook.
August 3rd, 2009 at 3:52 pm
All my characters speak dialogue that is nothing but descriptions of recipes from Julia Child cookbooks. Is this a problem? The script is an action thriller involving butter.
August 3rd, 2009 at 6:05 pm
Dave said:
“The characters instead quote real material, but do so in passing… So as the writer, I wish to give credit for these sources; though within the screenplay, authorship seems to belong to the characters themselves. So the quoted material, essentially, is invisible. Hence why I’d like to know how best to provide credit.”
Are you saying that you are putting other writers’ words verbatim into your characters’ mouths for the sake of realism? That is some murky legal ground you’re stepping onto, my friend.
Even in an academic paper you must clearly designate quotes; you can’t just drop in another writer’s sentence and put it a thank you to the writer at the end. The screenplay equivalent of proper reference would be having your character say, “You know, Watkins said” and if you’re not even including that…
Get thee to a lawyer, my friend, before you go any further. Or for pete’s sake, if you’ve done the research why not just rewrite your dialogue in your own words and spare yourself (and your poor, poor producer) the heartache?
August 3rd, 2009 at 6:47 pm
Depending on how much of a book you’re quoting (I”m sure there’s a legal threshold), you must pay or otherwise get the permission of the author. And as far as a bibliography, it’s called the end credits and usually appears after the music roll.
August 3rd, 2009 at 7:17 pm
Dave, I think you could clear this up by posting a snippet of your script.
But my general feeling is that you’re going at this the wrong way– if you need to make your film feel more realistic, quoting real-life sources is not going to help. Movies “take liberty with reality” because they create their own world with their own sets of rules. Fictional movies are effective when they exaggerate reality.
If you don’t like that, go join the French New-Wave or make a documentary. But don’t expect to make a Hollywood hit.
August 3rd, 2009 at 7:50 pm
@LadyUranus “But my general feeling is that you’re going at this the wrong way– if you need to make your film feel more realistic, quoting real-life sources is not going to help.”
So, instead of telling him what will help, you seem to dismiss the idea of realism:
“Movies “take liberty with reality” because they create their own world with their own sets of rules. Fictional movies are effective when they exaggerate reality.”
Not necessarily. All movies balance realism and artifice to a degree, and they could fall closer to either category and still work. The artifice does not need to present itself in the narrative (e.g. a Dardenne Brothers movie, which are meticulously realistic and work beautifully).
“If you don’t like that, go join the French New-Wave or make a documentary.”
Since when is the Nouvelle Vague supposed to be realistic? Take any Godard movie from that time, they’re absolutely bugfuck (and generally awesome). And the irony is, his characters do tend to quote a lot of text as well, directly or indirectly.
August 3rd, 2009 at 8:18 pm
Besides the fact that the word realism should have never been used enough times in the English language to become an actual word, especially a word associated with fiction film; emphasis on fiction there, and the fact that this sentence is a run on sentence, let me just say, John August, he’s right.
August 3rd, 2009 at 8:49 pm
Christ. What’s all the hub-bub? Quote if it clarifies. Simple as that.
August 3rd, 2009 at 8:57 pm
Favorite quote within a screenplay: that ee cummings poem within Hannah and Her Sisters. I think that really works for me. Of course, sometimes quotes date projects. Not always, but sometimes. For me, that would be the biggest concern. Who wants to watch James Bridges’ Perfect these days, even though it “quotes” many aerobics moves.
Also, are people going to understand the context of the quote in Canada, Mexico, Las Vegas? If not–I say cut it.
August 5th, 2009 at 1:32 am
Great point Dilliah. Thx for making it.
August 5th, 2009 at 5:23 am
I -as a viewer- don’t find anything wrong with a character quoting from a book or film as long as it is part of the plot: reading a poem, quoting a book while doing research on something, people discusing a film,… But if a character is using famous quotes to reinforce whatever he is saying, well, I think he can get away with it a couple of times before he starts to sound like some petulant a**. The same with real people. The only exception to this I can think of is if it is a character trait -but be aware that would make for a very annoying character-.
Regarding how to format quotes within a screenplay, I don’t think they require any special formatting: dialogues should be written by registering what comes out of the mouth of a character -numbers should be written “thirteen” and not “13″, and quotes don’t need “”-. If the quote isn’t that well known, you could indicate between parenthesis -(quoting from this or that book), whatever- to the reader, but then, if the quote isn’t so well known, what’s its purpose? And also, the screenplay shouldn’ have information that is not going to be on the screen, so unless some character is going to point out that’s a quote, then you should avoid any indication.
That came up a bit confusing. The rule should be something like this: quotes that are part of the plot can be ok; quotes used only to reinforce some character’s behavior or opinions, well, use at your own peril.
August 5th, 2009 at 5:56 am
Going through the comments I’ve seem some argument about how people ask a screenwriter for advice and then disagree with his opinion. I can’t stress this word enough: OPINION. Of course, the opinion of someone who makes his living writing films should count quite a bit. That said, if you look for interviews with professional screenwriters in Youtube, you’ll see that they have different opinions about what makes an story work, or how charaters or plot should drive the story, or any other aspect of dramatic writing.
I don’t agree that “any scene in which a character quotes from a real or imaginary text will be awful”, as John says, although in this case it sounds very likely to be so.
I don’t believe in big DO’s or DON’T’s, just in common sense. McKee will say : DON’T write voice over! Field will say: DO have a plot point in this page and that page and that other page… Neither of them is completely right or wrong, as neither is John here. But you don’t have to agree with everything they say. Just give it some thought and decide what option you think is best.
August 7th, 2009 at 1:43 am
@ Nelson
That’s the difference between opinion and theory. “Don’t like it. Never have. Never will.” is an opinion… “It won’t make it through the gauntlet if it has those shoes on” is a theory.
Two separate ideas.
I get the opinion part… “Any scene in which a character quotes from a real or imaginary text will be awful.” – Simple. Either he don’t like it, or at least at the moment nothing remotely good came to mind. General means general- so obviously he’s left room for exceptions. Characters quoting from text… Gotcha. Done deal.
But the theory part– Bibliographies: (not about the characters, but how the SCREENPLAY ITSELF doesn’t site text, or shouldn’t) I actually got into. – Sure I found a ton of things occurring ON SCREEN that cited literature, like that nioremalade definition of pulp that opens at the top of Pulp Fiction. – But I didn’t find even one example where the screenplay cited backing literature or authorship for a specific scene OFF SCREEN. – I thought sure I’d find it in Shakespeare in Love since Stoppard is basically a walking bibliography-on-crack-with-extra-footnotes… but its just not there.
I did, on the other hand, find a 15-year-old slushpile-surfing no-hitter that explained itself quite succinctly in footnotes. But that’s precisely what its doing… explaining itself.
August 8th, 2009 at 4:48 pm
Just saw Julie & Julia, and it doesn’t prove or disprove anything, but there was a quote thrown out by Julie’s husband (I forget the exact quote), but he immediately credited it as coming from The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy. It’s something many people do in real life.
“‘Life, don’t talk to me about life.’ Marvin! Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy?”
Having this guy throw out a Hitchhiker’s line really added something to his character, and shows that it can be done — but usually shouldn’t.
August 8th, 2009 at 4:49 pm
By the way, the quote I gave was not the one from Julie & Julia.
August 13th, 2009 at 5:28 pm
Rules are made to be broken.
This was TERRIBLE advice for a writer.