On accident, by accident
One of the random quirks of language that pops up. Fill in the blank:
JOHN
Who opened my mail?
MARY
Sorry. I did it __ accident. I just wasn’t paying attention.
If you said “on accident,” you’re very likely under 30 years old.
In fact, among Americans in that age group, it’s becoming more common than the traditional “by accident.” And linguists don’t know why:
Finally, why “on accident” arose is also unclear. Obviously, “on purpose” may have played a role in supplying an analogical form (I didn’t break the window on purpose; I broke it on accident). But “by accident” and “on purpose” have existed for hundreds of years without one causing the other to change prepositions, and we don’t hear “by purpose,” so why did the change happen when it did and why did the change have the direction it did rather than the other way round (in other words, to “by accident” & “by purpose”)?
My hunch? Start looking at popular kids’ TV shows and see when they started using it.
Articles
April 9th, 2009 at 9:48 am
dammit John! I’m 29 and said “by accident”. You make me feel so old…
April 9th, 2009 at 9:59 am
I bet it’s related to the dubbing of anime into English. I’ve found a huge proportion of Japanese speakers say “on accident”, and if that was seeping into dubs and subs over the last 20 years, it probably infected a whole generation. Either directly, or when anime-loving Western animators made their own work.
When I asked my wife why she said “on accident” (before I nagged her into switching to “by accident”), she replied: “I hate your stupid language and all its inconsistencies.”
April 9th, 2009 at 10:13 am
I’m 21 and I also said “by accident.” But I don’t feel old, since I’m neither American nor a native English speaker.
April 9th, 2009 at 10:17 am
I’ve never even HEARD of the term “on accident”. Of course, I’m not under 30.
April 9th, 2009 at 10:28 am
I assume that the people who say “on accident” instead of “by accident” are the same ones who say “for all intensive purposes” when they mean “for all intents and purposes.” Stop the madness!
April 9th, 2009 at 10:28 am
Same thing here, Tim. I’m 23 and even I knew it was “by accident”.
April 9th, 2009 at 10:44 am
Haven’t heard that one, but I’m pretty sure Kim Possible was singlehandedly responsible for creating a huge amount of new tween lexicon. Stuff like, “so the drama” and all that…
April 9th, 2009 at 10:45 am
I could care less.
April 9th, 2009 at 10:45 am
I just turned 25, and I’ve never said “on accident.” Maybe it’s just a regional thing like New Yorkers who insist on saying “waiting on line” instead of “waiting in line.”
April 9th, 2009 at 10:49 am
The most ridiculous language rape I’ve seen is someone writing “minus well” instead of “might at well.” daveednyc’s example also drives me crazy.
April 9th, 2009 at 10:55 am
I tested this out on some friends, and sure enough one of them said “on accident”. We’re all in our twenties, but “by accident” is still the norm amongst me and my friends.
April 9th, 2009 at 10:55 am
I’m 28 (and Irish) and have never heard “on accident” before.
Re. 4 daveednyc
Did you mean to say “I couldn’t care less”? “I could care less” means you care about the topic of conversation, doesn’t it?
April 9th, 2009 at 10:57 am
I’ve heard this but usually it’s a (not so bright) 7 yr. old saying it. I always attributed it to bad grammar at home. But TV could very well be the culprit. This reminds me of people that say “Melk and Pellow” instead of “Milk and Pillow”. I’m not fond of those people.
April 9th, 2009 at 10:59 am
Not that “Milk and Pillow” is something that you would say together in a normal situation…how about “Milk” or “Pillow”?
April 9th, 2009 at 11:02 am
“I could care less” and “I couldn’t care less” mean the same thing. One is sarcasm, the other is hyperbole. Much like “fat chance” and “slim chance” mean the same thing.
I’m 32, and I hear “on accident” all the time here in California’s Silicon Valley. And I’m talking educated people — my coworkers are all university graduates, and I hear “on accident” more frequently than “by accident”. It used to kill me every time I heard “on accident”, but now over time, they both sound correct to me.
April 9th, 2009 at 11:04 am
I think it’s a profound difference; “on accident” is that person’s subtle way of implying they are far less “at cause” and therefore less responsible for the resulting boo-boo, rather than stepping up and completely “owning it.” I think the younger generation is generally less accountable, having come to adulthood during an Administration that was also very unaccountable. You’ll rarely hear that follow-up statement: “I just wasn’t paying attention” from them as well; I think you’re more likely to hear that it was someone else’s fault.
April 9th, 2009 at 11:08 am
To counteract this annoying phenomenon, I think we should all start saying “by purpose.”
April 9th, 2009 at 11:11 am
Brian:
I’m not sure, but I think Daveednyc tried to point out another random language quirk by being ironic.
Or not. :)
April 9th, 2009 at 11:14 am
Never heard “on accident” either and assumed the blank should be filled with “by accident”, and I’m 22 and from Sweden…
“On Accident” just sounds stupid.
April 9th, 2009 at 11:14 am
I’m 20 and knew to say “by”, but said “on” simply because that is what I thought you were wanting me to do (given the title). In any other circumstances I’d say “by”, though. I hate when people say “on accident”. I think I said it once today by accident, though. It bothers me to no end. It’s like when people say “axe” instead of “ask”. Friggin’ infuriates me.
Maybe it’s just that I have a better grasp on the English language than most my age.
April 9th, 2009 at 11:33 am
I don’t know if I’ve ever heard an adult say it, when I hear it I think of small children who haven’t mastered grammar yet. To me it doesn’t sound any less stupid than “I falled down and breaked my leg”.
Here’s one I’ve only heard once – as a kid, one of my teachers would use the phrase “on tomorrow” as in “We’re going to take a test on tomorrow.” I never could bring myself to have any respect for that woman.
April 9th, 2009 at 11:34 am
we learnt “by accident” in English class… on accident is totally new to me ;)
April 9th, 2009 at 11:36 am
Axe and melk and pellow, those are all accents…
I say both. I think they’re different, I just can’t explain how right now, without the sweeping generational generalizations made by #16 Scott M…
I’ll be thirty before the year is out, and I’m American.
April 9th, 2009 at 11:36 am
I just took the GMAT recently and it has a section where you need to know your idioms. In studying, this one actually came up as a common mistake to avoid.
As a general rule I think every America should (re-)read Strunk & White once a year. January should be Strunk & White month. It would make life better.
April 9th, 2009 at 11:37 am
Interesting. I am over thirty and I have literally never heard anyone say “on accident” in my life. It’s always been “by accident”.
April 9th, 2009 at 11:42 am
I’d stress that “on accident” isn’t necessarily wrong, it’s just atypical, and it’s interesting that it became so widespread.
April 9th, 2009 at 11:43 am
Nicholas:
Aks, or Ax is actually a real word, meaning basically the same thing as ask You can look it up in the Oxford dictionary. It used to be much more common, but died out (along with a lot of other words) with the advent of printing. It survived in some African-American and Appalachian communities.
April 9th, 2009 at 11:47 am
John, that brings up an interesting question. What makes a use of language wrong versus atypical?
April 9th, 2009 at 12:09 pm
I’m American, southern, white, 32.
I’ve heard “on accident.” Typically from slack-jawed, dead-eyed, overweight crackers in their late teens or early twenties.
My theory – it takes less energy to say “on accident” than “by accident.” “On” leaves your tongue and mouth that much closer to “uhh.” At least in my part of the country (northern Louisiana) it’s always the laziest pronunciation (or diction) that wins out.
April 9th, 2009 at 12:15 pm
Actually I was wrong. In the south the “y” in by is exactly the same as the “a” in accident – it comes out sheeplike: “baaahxident”. So it’s not your tongue you have to move, it’s your lips, to make the initial “b.”
April 9th, 2009 at 12:21 pm
My seven year old says “Many of times”, which I think she got from “plenty of times”. I don’t say anything because I think it’s cute. Maybe that’s how this sort of thing gets started. Kids say it and are never corrected.
April 9th, 2009 at 12:23 pm
Everyone could avoid the phrase entirely if they simply stopped hanging around people who make mistakes! Remove the need for the phrase and you won’t hear it. :)
April 9th, 2009 at 12:44 pm
“John, that brings up an interesting question. What makes a use of language wrong versus atypical?”
There’s very little that people actually say that is “wrong,” most natural differences in usage are better classified as just that…differences.
For some reason, though, language usage tends to bring up strong cultural/tribal reactions in which anyone who doesn’t speak the way you do is defensively labelled “stupid.” It’s really kind of annoying.
April 9th, 2009 at 12:44 pm
I say “by accident.” But I don’t think I count because I’m over 30.
When in east or south Texas, it is not uncommon to hear “on accident” and at times “on-a accident.” I just thought it was part of a regional dialect.
Someone mentioned “axe” in place of “ask” earlier. I have a number of friends from New Orleans who say this is quite commonly used in their hometown and the usage is not dependent upon the individual’s educational level.
April 9th, 2009 at 12:57 pm
Sounds British to me, sort of like “in hospital”. Or, “I ended up in hospital on accident.”
April 9th, 2009 at 1:04 pm
I’m twenty seven years old and I said “by accident” I think “on accident” sounds so awkward. I mean even Slingblade speaks better english!
April 9th, 2009 at 1:11 pm
So Dave, how do you draw the line between what is wrong and what is merely different?
April 9th, 2009 at 1:13 pm
I’m a writer now, but in my former life I was a Ph.D. student studying linguistics, specifically language change, so this is fascinating to me.
I asked my kids. The 15-year-old boy said “On accident.” The 12-year-old girl said “By accident.”
If it is anime-derived, we’d expect to see it showing up more among males, at least initially.
Really interesting.
April 9th, 2009 at 1:24 pm
Maybe more things just happen on accident these days…
I like the linguist’s scientific test above – “I asked my kids.”
April 9th, 2009 at 1:29 pm
“So Dave, how do you draw the line between what is wrong and what is merely different?”
For syntax, it’s all context.
Nonsense is always wrong, so saying “the belong glasses to who?” is wrong in any context, register, or dialect.
However, if I were to say “to whom did the glasses belong?” that might be right for an essay in an english lit course, but it would be very wrong said between friends at a Pizza Hut. However, saying “who did the glasses belong to?” would be very right at the pizza hut, but perhaps wrong in a formal essay.
“On accident” is just a new variant of “by accident.” I suppose for now it’s wrong in that formal essay, though acceptable pretty much anywhere else. But you can bet that will probably change as the people currently under the age of 30 start grading english lit essays.
April 9th, 2009 at 1:35 pm
Yeah, I’m a 19-year-old who uses both interchangeably, at least as far as I can recall. Not crazy about the assumption that using “on accident” sometimes makes me an idiot.
April 9th, 2009 at 1:54 pm
“When in east or south Texas, it is not uncommon to hear “on accident””
Yep.
i hear “on accident” all the time from people of all ages around where I live (in the Dallas area). My Dallas-native wife is a teacher (with a masters degree), as a matter of fact, and she insisted that “on accident” was just as correct (she’s not an English teacher, though).
I didn’t hear it growing up in West Texas, though.
April 9th, 2009 at 2:10 pm
Hmm, I have never heard of “on accident” until today. I’m from Canada though, so maybe it’s more popular in the South.
April 9th, 2009 at 2:12 pm
Is “on accident” covered in any grammar (or similar) reference books?
April 9th, 2009 at 2:51 pm
The English language seems to be an ever-evolving thing that is rarely used “properly”, i.e. What is taught in an English Class, for instance. However, in most cases, you could argue that communication is still mostly successful (which, I believe, is the ultimate goal for a language: To effectively communicate.)
Yet, because it is ever-changing, what’s considered right or wrong (or proper vs. atypical) changes over time as well.
What bothers me is that there are so many words at our disposal, yet, because too many people are too lazy to learn them or look them up, we tend to use the most basic terms to illustrate our points. This is, in general, probably a good thing, because simplicity will end up generating better communication, ideally (shortest distance between two points kinda thing). But, on the other hand, some of these words and/or terms that are not being used (or are misunderstood due to ignorance) actually better explain what you might be feeling or describing–not to mention that many of our more simplistic descriptive terms have multiple meanings…
Therefore, over time, we have slowly been simplifying our language to create instead a commonly-used “new” language that is often only successful at misunderstandings and miscommunication. As a result, we lose our own empowerment derived from self-expression.
(That sounds a little pretentious, I know…but the misuse of language is a pet peeve…I’m no doubt a culprit on occasion, too–I’m not letting myself off the hook, here, and I really hope this post isn’t littered with errors :) But, at least I’m trying all the time to beef up my vocabulary and my understanding of grammar, and it sorta saddens me that more people aren’t interested in doing so. Granted, as a writer, my interest in words and how they fit together to communicate a thought is a fascinating process to me, so I’m surely biased, but come on…)
April 9th, 2009 at 3:09 pm
The next thing to be made correct is an increasing use of “inside” where I would merely say “in.” My daughters do this. Originally I thought it was because they were tiny and also said things like “I broked my toy,” but now they have stopped making those mistakes but still say “I’m inside the car.” I would say “I’m in the car.” Both are correct, more or less, but it is a matter of preferred word choice.
Put this in you notebook as the next big shift in usage. You heard it from me first.
April 9th, 2009 at 3:39 pm
Death Cab forced “on accident” into my brian a few years back and it’s still trying to claw its way out.
April 9th, 2009 at 4:15 pm
My take? It comes from the phrase “accidentally on purpose”.
April 9th, 2009 at 4:44 pm
I’m a linguist by training. It’s hammered into us from our first courses, “a living language is always changing and that change is neither good nor bad.” Sometimes, there’s a shift in how something works grammatically and there’s no explanation.
BTW, in one of your recent posts, I think your comment about some English verb tenses not being available in other languages was inaccurate, but your explanation of the passive vs. progressive was spot on. I didn’t (and don’t) have the energy to explain to you why the verb comment was off.
Have you read the blog Language Log? You would enjoy it.
April 9th, 2009 at 5:08 pm
I would have said accidentally, actually. I’m pretty sure I’d pick “by accident” instead of “on accident” and I’m definitely under 30, but I’m also much better at grammar than many of my peers. :-)
April 9th, 2009 at 5:22 pm
I’ve never heard it, and I’m 18. “On accident” sounds really weird to me, not that that means there’s anything at all wrong with it. I’m from Australia, though, so maybe it hasn’t made its way over here yet? On the anime, a lot of my friends watch anime, but don’t use “on accident”.
April 9th, 2009 at 6:02 pm
Thinking about it, I (a 25 year old male) am unlikely to use either phrase.
Instead, I’d almost certainly say that “It was an accident”. If my usage isn’t particularly uncommon, then the similarity between “an” and “on” might be enough to popularize “on accident”.
April 9th, 2009 at 7:19 pm
I’ve never heard “on accident” outside of the aforementioned Death Cab For Cutie song, and some American usage (eg, this very blog post). I’m Australian, and I imagine that somebody using it here would be considered just plain wrong.
Andy: ‘“I could care less” and “I couldn’t care less” mean the same thing. One is sarcasm, the other is hyperbole. Much like “fat chance” and “slim chance” mean the same thing.’
Really? To me, the first one just sound wrong. It could be read as sarcastic, but only in a specific context and when said with a specific tone.
Fascinating…
April 9th, 2009 at 7:57 pm
I’m in the same boat as Kevin (#1). 29 and use “by.” “On accident” grates my ears for some reason. Just does not sound right.
April 9th, 2009 at 8:06 pm
Like #52, I’d have said “It was an accident.” and was thinking the same thing about the possibility of “an” leading to “on”.
And I’ve never heard “on accident” in person. Only here and, one would guess, the occasional movie/tv show.
April 9th, 2009 at 8:09 pm
My guess is that this is another example of lazy English. “On accident” is easier to say than “by accident” and, as we move more and more toward “easier” language, this has moved in. (Ha! Ended that sentence with a preposition [smile]).
~Luke
April 9th, 2009 at 9:08 pm
20 and I say by accident. I’ve heard “on accident” but it sounds stupid to me
April 9th, 2009 at 10:11 pm
I’m 39, and I immediately thought “on accident.” It was my first instinct, and either on or by sound equally fine to me. I generally use correct English and idioms, and I’m well-educated… but I’m also living in Texas. I think Lisa’s right and it’s a regional difference, and has become more common perhaps as people from the south (or specifically Texas, perhaps) have moved around the country, or as “derty south” hip hop has become more popular.
Oh, but if I’d written the sentence, like Alan Scott, I’d have said, “It was an accident.”
April 9th, 2009 at 10:19 pm
Holy Shit!
I remember my 3rd grade teacher correcting me, saying you can’t do something ON accident, only BY accident.
It’s something I’ve remembered to this day, and I can’t help but notice when people use it incorrectly.
You see. Public education ain’t so bad……:)
April 9th, 2009 at 11:20 pm
I’m 46. We lived in the San Fernando Valley for four years when I was a girl and everyone said on accident. My dad hated it and would hit me for saying it. He would yell By accident, by accident. But I could never remember which it was he liked so started saying accidentally in self defense, a habit I still have.
They both sound bad to me, but I’m guessing that’s just me.
April 9th, 2009 at 11:23 pm
“On accident” is fatally flawed in a logical sense, in my opinion. It implies a simultaneity which insinuates connivance. It reeks of in-your-facedness.
Anybecause, I said so.
April 9th, 2009 at 11:59 pm
I think you’ll find that we can lay blame on the shoulders of Pee Wee Herman.
April 10th, 2009 at 1:13 am
@Kris (#27).
I’m am neurotic enough about language to have a copy of the OED (as well as several other dictionaries). The OED shows ‘aks’ as the phonetic pronunciation of the word, ax, which is a dialectical (mis)pronunciation of the word, ask.
The wrong (different) choice of prepositions is something that drives me crazy. I’m an American living in Ireland. The colloquial use of prepositions here is like fingers on the chalkboard to me. That and their insistence on adding extra vowels to words like ‘flavour’ or ‘anaesthesia’ make me a very nervous man (as I type those words red lines appear under them to taunt me).
April 10th, 2009 at 1:48 am
Hmm…I’ve never used on accident just yet, nor even heard it. But I have Shirley been tempted to say “by purposely” before!
April 10th, 2009 at 1:51 am
…. :-( All the comments now make me feel bad about thinking “on” and not “by.” I’m 19.
It varies on the sentence for which I say, and I can’t even truly narrow down what sort of sentence dictates which I’d use.
April 10th, 2009 at 2:50 am
I’m 24 and I’d have said “accidentally.” Or “it was an accident.”
But then I’m all crazy and shit.
April 10th, 2009 at 3:50 am
Do not get me started. And I’m not even a purist. Hell, I’m not even a native speaker.
April 10th, 2009 at 5:56 am
25 year old New Yorker who says “by accident” and “waiting on line.” Never heard “on accident” in this region.
April 10th, 2009 at 6:39 am
27 year old native English speaking Canadian here who says ‘by’ accident and hasn’t heard ‘on’ accident before.
April 10th, 2009 at 7:44 am
Hearing “What I want to axe you is…” definitely brings up prejudices for me. Challenging sometimes.
April 10th, 2009 at 7:49 am
I’ll be 25 on May 8th and I said, “by accident” when filling in the blank, so I think maybe it’s more of a preference type thing or something you’re used to hearing, my family uses by accident more often then not instead of “on accident.”
April 10th, 2009 at 8:27 am
Irregardless.
April 10th, 2009 at 8:58 am
24 y.o. and i say “by accident”
April 10th, 2009 at 9:47 am
This discussion reminds me of middle school and learning categories of English prepositions by heart. For example when it comes to travel: On foot, by plane etc.
But ‘on foot’ seems to have disappeared from American English. Poor people simply walk (probably to the nearest liquor store, if movies are anything to go by) and outdoorsy types go hiking. Noone goes anywhere on foot.
April 10th, 2009 at 10:57 am
I can’t believe how popular this post is. Was that by accident, John?
April 10th, 2009 at 11:40 am
I’m originally from Kentucky, have an English degree and now live in So Cal. I’ve never heard “on accident,” so maybe I don’t get out enough. But it certainly jars the ears after decades of “by.”
April 10th, 2009 at 12:17 pm
I really wanted to chage it to read “accidentally”. I’m 31. What kind of freak am I?
April 10th, 2009 at 12:38 pm
I never heard “on accident” until I moved to Los Angeles. I hear it pretty frequently here, mainly from the under-25 set.
April 10th, 2009 at 1:17 pm
Leave the linguistic debates to Geoffrey Nunberg at Stanford. I want to hear about this in the context of character, and why saying ‘on’ or ‘by’ tells us something about who they are. Speaking of which, where is this week’s video lesson?!!
April 10th, 2009 at 2:23 pm
25 – “by accident” – New Yorker – “IN line.”
Waiting on line drives me just as nuts as doing something on accident. On line is on the internet.
April 10th, 2009 at 3:51 pm
“Chomping at the bit”
“Dozens of people were evacuated from the building”
“Irregardless”
“Toe the line”
and on and on
April 10th, 2009 at 4:57 pm
@Chris (#63)
Seriously? Your “nervousness” is the equivalent of someone moving to France and complaining about everyone wishing him “bonjour.”
April 10th, 2009 at 6:03 pm
I’d say “by accident.” The only other option I could think of was switching to “accidentally.” I’m from New Zealand and have lived in England, and I’ve never heard “on accident” before. I’m astounded it’s considered correct by so many – but language does change!
A prime example: Chris at comment 63 is made nervous by British English, with its “insistence on adding extra vowels to words like ‘flavour’ or ‘anaesthesia’.” But the Irish people he’s complaining about aren’t adding extra vowels to the words. As a native American English speaker, he comes from a two hundred year tradition of removing them!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noah_Webster
In time, all sorts of “wrong” becomes normal. Think about the ubiquitous like! Now, like, even my dad has, like, given up complaining that it’s like, not “like” anything!
April 10th, 2009 at 6:45 pm
Scott M at #16 blames Bush. I haven’t read all the replies, but does anyone top that?
April 10th, 2009 at 10:13 pm
Hm… maybe I was wrong about it being a suthren thang. I spent much of my childhood in Los Angeles, and two of the others who say “on accident” (I am as likely to say on as by) are SoCal kids, too.
And anything that’s part of the lingo in Los Angeles gets spread – for the same reason most of the nation now speaks in an accent similar to California and local accents and dialects have softened or died out: television
April 10th, 2009 at 11:30 pm
I’ve heard “on accident” a few times, and yes, it was from twenty-something buddies. Honestly, though, I’ve never heard it from any of my more well-read twenty-something buddies. Or even ones who read at all. Hate to sound elitist, but I think it’s just something the not-so-super-literate tend to say/write, a la “I should of done that” or “they beat there kids.” …Or maybe I’m just being snarky. Actually, that’s probably it.
BTW, just one more voice in the chorus, but thanks for such an awesome blog, John. You are the man! :-)
April 11th, 2009 at 2:52 am
Also 29. “by accident.”
My guess is it’s the generation right after us.
My generation is the not GenX, aged with MTV, was a teenager when the internet came into being, cell phone replacing pager senior year, went to college with the internet just starting to be a reliable source of “research.”
The generation after us is the computer super literate, multiple television household, no concept of why people owned pagers generation.
April 11th, 2009 at 6:29 am
@Dave (#82)
English is not an official language in France and I’m not on some crusade to change how they use prepositions here in Ireland. I just appreciate the American conventional use of prepositions because they for the most part are consistent and make sense to me. When I hear someone say, “I’m different to you” instead of “I’m different than or from you,” I think it’s inaccurate. ‘To’ shows similarity whereas ‘than’ or ‘from’ show dissimilarity.
There are exceptions: George Carlin was a great observer of the peculiarities of language. When the announcement says that it’s time to get on the plane he says, “F!@# you! I’m getting in the plane.” I miss George.
April 11th, 2009 at 6:33 am
@Lietje
One word: aluminium
April 11th, 2009 at 7:41 am
Re. Chris the American who lives in Ireland.
It’s a little bit like town mouse/country mouse.
I was amazed when I went to the U.S. (New York) for the first time when nobody used or seemed familiar with the word ‘queue’. Nobody ‘queued’, they ‘waited in line’.
‘Handbags’ were ‘pocketbooks’ (I still don’t understand that one!) And ‘taps’ are ‘faucets’. It took me a long time to figure out that ‘cilantro’ was ‘coriander’.
Yes, this is going a bit off topic – it’s understandable that sometimes when you hear different uses of words or see spellings you are not used to, the instant reaction can be “no that’s wrong” or “that’s grating” but that’s what’s interesting about travelling.
Sure, I cringe every once in a while when I read North American books, blog etc. and see ‘color’, ‘tire’ or ‘bastardization’, because I grew up seeing those words spelt differently. But it doesn’t mean one way is inferior. I’d hate it if everything was exactly the same. How bloody banal would that be?
Also, you have to remember that America didn’t invent the English language. And the English don’t make the rules either.
Because language is a growing, evolving, organic entity.
The compilers of dictionaries don’t just write them and then effictively tell the general public “now go and use these words”. The opposite is true, in fact.
If the vocabulary Nazis enforced Shakespeare to comply with the so-called rules of the day, then the words and phrases he coined and created would never have become popularised by the general public.
Enjoy being in another culture. Be yourself, but also try not to be a cog in the wheel. And never ask for cilantro!
April 11th, 2009 at 8:04 am
@ Brian: Cilantro is the leafy part; the seeds of the plant are called coriander.
A lot of people call both coriander.
April 11th, 2009 at 8:19 am
I stand corrected!
Thanks, always happy to learn something new.
April 11th, 2009 at 9:00 am
@Chris (#86)
The problem is you hear someone speaking differently from you and you assume they are speaking “incorrectly,” that they are somehow inferior to your perfection, even though they are abiding by their own country/culture/dialect’s long formed logic, grammar, and syntax (one you are in violation of).
The Irish speak a different dialect of English than the Americanized version you do. Neither is more right than the other. In fact, in an Irish context (ie when speaking Irish English) “I’m different to you” is correct, whereas “I’m different from you” is fully incorrect.
Do you not see why you sound ridiculous, complaining about the “incorrectness” of another country’s language when you live in that other country?
April 11th, 2009 at 9:45 am
Dave,
before this devolves into some linguistic pissing contest please note that I used words like ‘conventional’ and that I added ‘different’ to ‘wrong.’ I have a degree in philosophy and rhetoric, have studied language and its capabilities/limits, and was in no way trying to imply that the way I see the world is the only way.
Please don’t call me ridiculous and I won’t call you belligerent.
April 11th, 2009 at 9:53 am
@Carlito (#79)
Nunberg is at my alma mater, Berkeley. Not Stanfurd. Dems is fightin’ wurds.
My apologies to Dave for calling him belligerent.
April 11th, 2009 at 10:41 am
Sounds good. Probably best to stick with words like “conventional” and “different” over “inaccurate,” “wrong” or “mispronunciation.” One makes you sound like a reasoned student of rhetoric and philosophy. The other makes you sound like an aggressively ignorant snob (the very worst kind).
April 11th, 2009 at 1:15 pm
One final word:
humour
April 11th, 2009 at 2:26 pm
This thread is absolutely fascinating. As for the main topic, I’ve never heard “on accident” (yes, I’m over 30) and it does seem weird to me, but doesn’t particularly bother me either (English is a wacky language — always has been, always will be). And everybody has their own English related pet peeves. For me it’s the word “proactive” — you’re either “active” or your “reactive” there is no room for or need for “proactive”, but I’ve noticed very few others are bothered by it the way I am.
The really interesting thing here is that it brings to the surface something else I’ve noticed over the years — People HATE to be corrected. HATE HATE HATE IT!!! There’s apparently something about being corrected that seems to draw a far more visceral reaction nowadays then I ever remember in my youth.
Maybe it’s tied to the political atmosphere of the day… the way a certain type of commentator has profited off of exploiting a fictional divide between “elitists” and “average joes” — If someone corrects you, they must be an elitist, they must think they’re smarter than you, better than you, etc etc. Maybe that has nothing to do with it… I’m not sure really. There’s always been the myth of “the wisdom of the common man” and “common sense” but I can scarcely remember a time when that myth has been so strongly embraced as the opposite and enemy of education.
I’ve noticed a disturbing tendency for a lot of people to dig in their heels and fight and scream like babies rather than ever admit a mistake or (god forbid) LEARN something. I’ve seen this play out on all sorts of levels. Professionally, I’m an attorney and you’d be shocked at how many complete laymen refuse to even yield to me on questions of law! (that’s right, they refuse to admit a lawyer knows more than them about the law… it’s a very strange thing.)
And I see this same thing being reflected in this very thread. A guy like #96 here seems completely ridiculous to me. A reasoned student of rhetoric and philosophy would be primarily concerned with the precise use of language — not whether they’re perceived as arrogant or not… that’s the concern of a petty spiteful little baby who hates being corrected or made to feel inferior.
Oh well, I’m just babbling now. Sorry. End rant.
April 12th, 2009 at 12:42 am
I’m loving these debates – so many of you have the same pet peeves as me, and as we’re from different cultures, I think that’s really cool :)
I assume we’re all writers, so we all love language, and of course we defend our usage of it. The thread is degenerating a little as everyone tries to prove their argument… and I’ve tried to be immune, but I’m sorry:
Chris, I see what you’re saying at comments 89 and 97. To you, as a speaker (and reader) of American English, those are “extra” vowels, and there are many hundreds of words you could list in that way. However, as a student of language yourself, you should understand that the American spellings are derived from the British, and not the other way around.
English evolved over centuries, and it’s often a complete bastard of a language. There’s no doubt Webster’s reforms simplified American spelling greatly, and I’d agree most are sensible changes – but they were still reforms on an existing language, which survived unreformed everywhere else. Hence: humour, glamour, theatre, colour, travelling, and ostracise, all spelled correctly, (even though Firefox disagrees.)
Hooray for English… it’s kind of like the stray mutt you adopted from the pound – a bit of everything!
April 12th, 2009 at 6:05 am
On accident sounds like incorrect English to me. Like saying, like, the word, like, like all the time.
April 12th, 2009 at 1:56 pm
@Lietje (99)
Of course I understand. With the ‘aluminium‘ example I was hoping you would discover that the man who gave the element its name originally spelled it ‘aluminum.’ It was only afterward that ‘aluminium’ was chosen because it was seen as more consistent with other elements’ names. It’s not totally consistent because we still have ‘platinum’ instead of ‘platinium.’
My preference is for less rather than more, hence my dislike for vowels not doing any real work (like the ‘u’ in ‘humour’ or the ‘e’ in ’shoppe’).
I could discuss this all day long because it really intrigues me. However, I’m afraid that if I post any more on this topic I’ll wear out my welcome. Thanks to all (even Dave) who brought up some good points. Now it’s back to the drawing board to refine my sense of humor in its written form.
April 12th, 2009 at 2:59 pm
Could this simply be a misunderstanding… people who are getting confused between “an accident” and “on accident”??? That would explain why you don’t get “by purpose”, because there’s no semi-homophonic phrase to get confused by. I think that’s it… you’ve got a generation of kids who thought they were hearing “It was on accident” when in fact what they were hearing was “It was an accident”. This is probably a side-effect of the ever-growing number of people in country for whom English a 2nd language. Does anyone have a better explanation than that?
April 13th, 2009 at 8:31 pm
Robert Gibbs, Obama’s press secretary said “on accident” today in the video on this page of the Huffington Post. He’s 38 but looks older. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/13/spanish-spoken-during-whi_n_186371.html
April 16th, 2009 at 2:11 pm
I’m 29 and have never used “on accident.” I HATE HATE HATE when people say that! I’ve never heard it until I came to the midwest. They say that all the time here.
They also say “Do What?” instead of just a plain “what?”. It drives me bonkers lol.
April 21st, 2009 at 11:44 pm
I put in the term – pet peeve “on accident” just so I could join in this string. I’m hearing it ALL the time here in Oregon and it’s driving me nuts. As a linguist who spent lots of time learning which prepositions go with specific nouns in Russian, it really bugs me that people don’t even think about it in English. It sticks out like a sore thumb to me and actually makes me cringe. But I’m making an effort to find the linguistic mystery of how it came about more interesting and learning to appreciate it. It doesn’t usually work, and I have to resort to Ommmm’ing. Om Shanti users of “on accident” I’m sure, as I’m 43, almost 44, it’s not the last irritant I’ll encounter in the language habits of my juniors.
April 23rd, 2009 at 2:25 pm
An accident only occurs BY doing something wrong thus the term “by accident”. “On accident” is poor grammar, plain and simple. Anyone using poor grammar should be nicely corrected.
May 6th, 2009 at 9:43 am
snowballa, while that makes logical sense, something done intentionally also only occurs BY doing something, yet we don’t say you did it “by purpose”.
While I totally agree that saying “on accident” sounds totally wrong to me, I still don’t think there’s much logical reasoning why it is any more wrong than “by accident”. Like much of language, it’s right because it is what most people accept as right.
May 22nd, 2009 at 12:18 am
On accident is sooo wrong!
May 31st, 2009 at 5:38 am
I’m 16 and capable of knowing it’s BY accident! I think it helps that I’m actually english and don’t speak the american bastardization of the language.
This: ‘Mark April 9th, 2009 at 10:28 am I assume that the people who say “on accident” instead of “by accident” are the same ones who say “for all intensive purposes” when they mean “for all intents and purposes.” Stop the madness!’ Made me laugh a lot. (Also, do people REALLY do that?)