You know, like in that other movie
Is this a smart shortcut or stupid laziness?
“We are thrust into the middle of a vast, vicious ground fight (think of the main battle scene in Braveheart, except with assault rifles and bayonets). On the right side is a sea of soldiers wearing red uniforms. The left side is a sea of soldiers in black uniforms.”
– Sung
Your example would fall in the “stupid laziness” category. Lazy in that it coasts on a cinematic reference without really expanding or commenting on it. Stupid in that it squanders an opportunity to show what’s exciting or unique about your battle scene as opposed to all that have come before it.
But I suspect you were really asking about whether it’s okay to drop a reference to another movie in your script — something to help the reader understand what you’re describing.1 And the answer is yes. Just be smart about it.
You’ll almost always want to marry a movie reference with a significant qualifier, something that greatly amplifies, defeats or transforms it. Some examples…
Carla’s date PHIL is like Shrek’s uglier cousin.
There’s something uncomfortably sexual in Josh and Stan’s rivalry. It’s like Top Gun without planes.
With razor-sharp teeth and leathery wings, the dremonae are a cross between prehistoric fish and Oz’s flying monkeys.
So while it’s okay to drop an occasional movie reference, you’re almost always better off doing it your own way. Let’s take your hypothetical example and see how it might be better constructed.
We are thrust into the middle of a vast, vicious ground fight
All good up to here. But rather than immediately reducing it to a movie reference, why not better establish the goals and geography?
We are thrust into the middle of a vast, vicious ground fight: the mighty Empirix Guard, backlit by the afternoon sun, and the scrappy Raiders, whose zeal somewhat compensates for their lesser firepower. From above, we can make out the serpentine battle line, neither side clearly winning.
That feels like Braveheart without explicitly calling it out. And by being more specific to your world, you don’t risk popping the reader out of the story to remember what that scene was like in Braveheart, and how promising Mel Gibson was before he started drunk-driving and crucifying people.
- Here’s the distinction: In Charlie and the Chocolate Factory, there’s a very deliberate reference to 2001, with a Wonka bar replacing the black obelisk. That’s in the script, and in the movie. That’s not what we’re talking about here. ↩
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February 19th, 2008 at 7:09 am
Also… http://jerslater.blogspot.com/search?q=on+establishing+mood
February 19th, 2008 at 9:00 am
What threw me off initially was him saying “assault rifles and bayonets”. What I envisioned was an 18th century war, but with each side weilding AK-47s and M4s, clearing the field within seconds.
Sounds good to me. Haha
I agree with everything you’ve said, John. :)
February 19th, 2008 at 9:02 am
I NEVER reference another film in my scripts, even if it’s a blatant rip-off. It is MY script, MY story and will NOT be tainted by some other hack’s vision. Only if it’s a deliberate spoof or reference to another “classic” but I’ve never done that either. So there.
Maybe that’s why I’ve never sold anything. :)
February 19th, 2008 at 9:24 am
What’s wrong with driving drunk and crucifying people? It’s the passion that counts.
February 19th, 2008 at 11:32 am
“There’s a very deliberate reference to 2001, with a Wonka bar replacing the black obelisk.”
There’s a rapping, ex-N.W.A. Wonka bar in Charlie and the Chocolate Factory? Boy, was I not paying attention.
Zing!
February 19th, 2008 at 12:08 pm
In one of my groups, another writer got called on her using references in both ways. She had characters referencing films in dialog, and also used references in action blocks to describe things.
My script in the same group, copiously references other films. Nearly every other page has some cultural reference, because the main characters are of an age group that is obsessed with and often quotes movies. When I inquired as to why I didn’t get the same note, I got the answer I was hoping for: my references came organically from the characters’ personalities and fit their world, and neither is it the case that my script is trying to be another film through in-graph references, nor are my characters trying to become other characters. (It was also mentioned that since my characters aren’t in or trying to be in “the business” that I dodged the annoying script meme of characters who are wanna be stars who perpetually reference famous films and personalities.)
Using another film in description, as John points out, is “legal” but suboptimal. John suggests finding another way, and as usual he’s right. (If you think it really is necessary, use it sparingly, and there there can sometimes be an exception to the sparingly guideline for scripts that use cultural references copiously as part of the style, but some people absolutely hate that style — and it is really, really annoying if done badly.)
In the group, we discussed the idea that by referencing another film as a descriptor (”He’s like Remy from Ratatouille, only he’s an Ocelot!”), you run the risk of taking a reader out of your script to think about the other script. The hope is they’ll think something positive, but maybe not — maybe they hated the film you’re referencing and now you’ve picked up that baggage. However, even if they do think good things, they’re spending time thinking about another script, not yours.
So, I my opinion is that it’s best to avoid unless you know what problems it can cause and have seriously considered them and decide the potential problems are outweighed by the benefits you’ll get from making those sorts of descriptive references.
February 19th, 2008 at 12:52 pm
I once got hammered (long ago) for saying that one of my characters gave his shirt a “Picard tug.” I was told that it made my script sound like it was written by a fan-boy, even though the movie wouldn’t have come off that way. I got the point.
On the other hand, my latest short stars a character I describe as “a puppet dog with an Indiana Jones complex” and that’s screening at the Florida Film Festival in April, so maybe the lesson I learned was just how to make it work. If you’re interested in the short, check out poemfilms.com/doom/
February 19th, 2008 at 2:04 pm
This makes me think of another question.
Is it a good idea to ever reference music explicitly? Even if it was to say, “A tune like”?
February 19th, 2008 at 3:44 pm
I received coverage for this screenplay of mine, and here’s what the guy had to say:
“To anecdote action sequences in terms of other action movies is fine. It should be used sparingly, if possible only once or not at all.”
I’ve rewritten this screenplay since, and I’ve taken out the references (I also referenced The Matrix). Check it out:
We are thrust into the middle of a vicious ground fight in the outskirts of a large city. The landscape is riddled with crashed vehicles, destroyed buildings, and hundreds of dead bodies. Bombs are EXPLODING, machine guns are BLAZING, and SCREAMS of victory are intermingled with SCREAMS of pain.
As the battle ensues, it becomes clear that there are two sides: soldiers in red uniform and soldiers in black uniform. It also becomes clear that the black soldiers are badly outnumbered.
There’s a kamikaze quality in the way the red soldiers fight, fearlessly running toward the source of gunfire, determined to overwhelm with the sheer number of soldiers. This results in many hand-to-hand skirmishes.
I think it reads better. As you can see, I also removed the assault rifles and bayonets bit, because yeah, it’s sort of weird.
Thanks, as usual, John. You’re a saint. Who works in Hollywood, no less. Will wonders ever cease?
February 19th, 2008 at 3:49 pm
No music reference either, unless the sound of the song is directly related to the story. In Lean’s BRIEF ENCOUNTER, only Rachmaninoff’s piano concerto is used as a score and it is directly connected to the radio in Laura’s living room that she turns on, then works its way in and out of the entire film.
Unless the music – jumpy, hip-hoppy, swing or otherwise – is pertinent to the story, don’t mention it.
I’ve never been paid to write, so you can throw my advice out the window if you wish. It’s just happens to be my writing style to make every script it’s own complete entity, without relying on hints from other people’s works. Unless it is supposed to be a reference in the story.
February 19th, 2008 at 4:06 pm
Re: Music. In general, Sean is absolutely correct. But, all rules are meant to be broken, if you are willing to pay the potential price. I have a couple scripts in which I feel the music is crucial in certain spots, so I specify particular songs.
One of those scripts — one which specifies particular songs “far too many” times — has gotten some of the best responses I’ve had on a script so far, including the compliment that at least two readers couldn’t put it down and lost sleep trying to finish it quickly. It has interested someone (who is not an industry professional. mind you) so much they’re talking to me tonight to give notes and talk about about possibly arranging financing for it (he and his friends have capital, enough to do an indie film). However, it didn’t place in any contests, and at least two readers have thought it was boring and slow. Did referencing music copiously have anything to do with the negative reactions? Or the positive ones? Yes, to both. It’s all subjective.
All these guidelines are intended to help prevent you from writing something so full of irritating pieces that readers claw their eyes out or jump off cliffs in order to get away from having to read another one of your dreadful pages. But, ultimately, you need to do what you think is right for the script. Maybe it won’t get made, but that’s the probable outcome anyway. I’ve heard many times that the only hard and fast rule is: “Don’t be boring.” However, I can recall a number of scripts I’ve read — some of which have been produced — which flagrantly violate even that rule. I don’t recommend it, but if boring is your bag, and you can get away with it, more power to you (just warn me so I don’t go see your film).
February 19th, 2008 at 6:08 pm
I think John’s right – it’s all in how you do it. There are no hard and fast “never do this” rules.
Diablo Cody’s Juno screenplay is chock full of references – movies and music. Seemed to work out okay for her.
February 20th, 2008 at 2:31 am
One of the worst “movie references” I’ve ever read was in Jonathan Hensleigh’s draft of THE ROCK, and it was in the actual spoken dialogue:
(Isherwood moves the syringe closer to his chest)
ISHERWOOD Oh f(—) oh s(—) oh f(—) THIS IS LIKE F(—)ING PULP FICTION ONLY IT’S REAL.
…. Surprisingly enough, that line didn’t make it into the finished film. Even Michael Bay has his limits.
February 20th, 2008 at 9:22 am
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with the occasional music reference, as long as it isn’t overdone and contributes to the scene you’re trying to get across. Music is an important part of a movie, and while it is usually decided later on, there are definitely situations where it can drive a scene. People dancing, or a group performing a song. A song where the lyrics are appropriate to the scene (montage or dialogue). Even if there isn’t something explicit that would require that specific song, mentioning a song can help the reader imagine the mood of the scene. As long as it is done sparingly, I don’t really see mentioning music as a problem, as long as it isn’t done obnoxiously, worst case is probably the music suggestion is ignored and something else used (and even in such a case, a suggestion can be helpful to the guy picking out music even when he ditches it in favor of something better).
It seems comparable to the situation of describing a character’s clothing, or what a location looks like. Obviously, a character is perceived differently if they’re wearing a suit, or jeans with a T-shirt and flannel shirt tied around the waist. Things like that are given to help the reader imagine the movie, not to provide a blueprint for the costume designer to follow.
As for movie references, seems fine for dialogue (and references you want the audience to see/hear), but generally lazy for description.
I think maybe people get confused by the use of movie comparisons in a pitch for a movie (”Speed”…but on a hang-glider…). That’s shorthand, and salesmanship where comparisons to movies that made money can help sell…in a screenplay it can seem tacky.
My least favorite movie reference ever is in Da Vinci Code (the book, hopefully they left it out of the movie) when he describes the main character as “Harrison Ford in Harris tweed”. All at once, a desperate attempt to develop a character through nothing more than name dropping, and a painfully unsubtle hint from the author who he’d like in the movie version. I can’t believe that turd was a hit (book OR movie).
February 20th, 2008 at 8:34 pm
I second hating on “The Da Vinci Code,” and that line had a lot to do with it, for the exact reasons mike stated.
I have a question semi-related: I wrote a screenplay where the character’s clothes/costume was important, but my teacher told me not to put that in the action line (or at least not to mention color, only that it was a shirt and pants). Is that a guiding rule? Because I found myself describing another’s clothes in my current screenplay and I wondered whether I should take it out…
February 20th, 2008 at 10:32 pm
Sung, I think the new rewritten piece you have is still a bit heavyweight. One start would be to replace the soldier bit with: As the battle ensues, it becomes clear that there are two sides: soldiers in red and soldiers in black, with the red team MUCH more numerous than the black team.
Something along those lines. I’m just spitballing. You can replace ‘team’ with ’side’ if ‘team’ isn’t the sort of mood you’re shooting for. And yes, they implicate different moods. Team implicates more of a small scale war mood, while ’side’ implicates more political and overarching mood to the battle situation.
You can call it ‘directing on the page’. Or simply being picky about words… Haha
February 21st, 2008 at 3:29 pm
Thanks, Carlo — I really appreciate it. I like your version better. It’s the sad (and wonderful, I suppose) thing about anything you write — it can always be better!
February 21st, 2008 at 7:16 pm
Glad I could help. I’m here all week! Haha
Carlo
February 23rd, 2008 at 10:21 am
“A crowded, smoke-filled watering hole of the twenty-third century… It does not have the bizarre qualities of the ‘Star Wars Bar,’ which is across the street.” –Star Trek III, credited to Harve Bennett
March 15th, 2008 at 8:53 pm
Without sounding too sycophantic (or should that be psychofantic?) I would just like to personally thank you for The Nines. It’s probably my third favorite film of the decade behind Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind and The Fountain. It says so many of the things that have been rattling around in my head for years and it does them so much more eloquently than I ever could have. The movie was a joy to watch and so emotionally fulfilling for me.
I haven’t liked all of your films. In fact, I sort of hated your collaborations with Tim Burton, but thank you for The Nines. It’s good enough that I have Netflix’d your entire catalog to give it another shot.
And furthermore, thank you for having one of the most interesting websites on the net.