They love it and they’re passing
The good news is that I’ve got a script out, my rep has gotten it into a number of hands and studios. The bad news is that they love it enough to pick up the phone and rave about the writing, but they’re passing because of content/violence. Granted, it is not a safe flick. It is however, fresh and a great ride. There must be fearless producers out there, looking, presumably aching, for something they can sink their teeth into. How the hell do I find them?
In other words, how do you make your first Kill Bill, or Sin City or Pulp?
– Rodney
New York
Been there. We took Go out as a spec script, and everyone really liked it — but no one wanted to buy it. I would go in for meetings, and executives would pitch me projects that were, “a lot like your script, which was great by the way. We would totally love to do that. Man. But we just can’t do that here.”
We ultimately sold Go to a tiny production company that had foreign financing. Eventually, a big studio bought us out, but only once we had a hot director and an attractive cast.
So that may be where you go next, Rodney — finding a director who loves your script and can help get actors attached.
In the meantime, take people at their word that they really like your script, and land some writing assignments. In the time between Go being an unsold spec and Go being a movie in theaters, I’d written four paid projects. I would have had a career even if the movie had never been made.
So capitalize on people’s affection for your script to find something that pays money. And know you’re not the only writer in your situation.
Articles
October 23rd, 2007 at 8:10 am
So if your spec doesn’t sell, do you ask the producers if they’ve got any work for you? It sounds crass, but if you don’t ask you don’t get, right?
I guess this is why it’s a good idea to have several scripts under your “belt” in case they say no to the first.
October 23rd, 2007 at 12:13 pm
It’s also often the case that a producer or studio exec will say they like a script but pass on it with some sort of excuse just to avoid insulting whoever sent it. This is more likely what happened to you, Rodney.
If a producer/exec says what he really thinks–”I’m passing because it’s a bad script.”–then that producer/exec isn’t likely to get the next script that agent/manager sends out. Unfortunately, you can’t say a piece of material is bad without saying the person who wrote it is a bad writer, and/or the person who sent it is bad at their job.
So, Rodney, the truth is, if your script actually is awesome, and would make for a cool movie that lots of people would want to see, and if your agent/manager got it to a good number of companies, and the right kind of companies, it’s unlikely that no one would buy it. It’s more likely that it just isn’t good enough. Especially for violent action movies, which seems to be what you’ve written, because they sell well internationally.
As for getting your script out to ‘fearless producers’, make sure your agent/manager exposes the material to ALL the producers and companies who can and do make these sorts of movies. All the genre arms at the studios, Lakeshore, First Look Studios (Avi Lerner), Lionsgate. There are a BUNCH.
And hit up the big five agencies to see if you can get a director interested.
But keep in mind that the highest likelihood is that the script just isn’t good enough, and it’s not gonna sell no matter how many companies you send it to. So you wanna be working on your next script, which is gonna be better. Just concentrate on improving your talent. You’re reading tons of other screenplays, both good and bad ones, you’re watching tons of movies, of the sort you write, and other kinds, too–all kinds. Novels, too.
Have the script covered by an industry pro, too. It’s the best way to take the script’s temperature for how the town will respond to it, in general.
October 23rd, 2007 at 3:44 pm
I have the same situation as Rodney. My agent sends out my script and there are always positive comments like, “He can really write dialogue” and “He is a creative storyteller,” but they always say they are not the right fit to produce it.
I am a small fish in a big pond, and my agent is not eager to push my script on numerous production houses because he has more established clients (my perception). How do I secure other writing gigs in the meantime? Do I need to ask my agent for help? Very green and not too familiar if I am getting the run around from the agent, or I need to do more of the leg work. Any advice would be great.
October 23rd, 2007 at 5:15 pm
Jason,
It’s all on you.
You need to empower your agent to put you in position to get writing gigs. You have to give him something he can sell. The highest percentage strategy for getting yourself in position to becoming a working writer is to sell a spec screenplay. That gets your name in the trades, it gets your script read by D-people, and it gets your name on writer lists for open assignments.
You might also try enlisting a manager to help push your stuff, but really, it’s all about your own efforts. You need to write a nice, fat, juicy, commerical, sell-able spec that a buyer (a studio or mini-financier) would buy–something your agent can just photocopy and submit, that doesn’t need talent or financing attached.
Also, embrace the opportunities you encounter. If a dev. person at a legit company likes a script of yours and wants to develop it with you, and he’s not in position to spend any money to option the script, don’t tell him you ‘don’t work for free’ and to ‘talk to your agent’. That’s not where you are in your career. You’re trying to get started, you’re trying to get a foothold in the business. If the dev. person wants to help you get a foothold, and get one of your scripts set up, let him. Either just shake hands with him and do his notes, or let him option it for a dollar.
You don’t care about ‘the deal’ right now, that’s not your priority. You’re not in the game yet, so you don’t care how much PT you think you deserve; your object for now is to just get in the game.
Otherwise you’re cutting off your nose to spite your face. If he starts to take advantage of you, if he’s not doing what he said he would, you can walk away.
Good luck, and no matter what, keep writing.
October 23rd, 2007 at 5:43 pm
JA, I would really like to correspond with the person who posted this question if they prefer so if there is anyway you could make my email address available to them, I would appreciate that. Reading a daring, refreshing script is so relieving and its just the kind of work I’m looking to support. I just set up a couple of very challenging scripts with Distribs/Foreign Cash. Thanks, Sid
October 23rd, 2007 at 6:44 pm
A couple of smaller production companies have offered a “free option” because I am not a WGA writer. We are currently working with them and tightening our drafts. I was a little apprehensive about the “Free Option.” It is scary not having any experience in this industry. Can a teacher every make it big??? haha…
Thanks anonymous for the advice.
October 23rd, 2007 at 7:26 pm
Jason,
Whether you’re in the WGA or not doesn’t really make a difference in terms of your situation. Many/most production companies don’t have their own development or equity money. They look for material and then set their projects up at studios, or arrange for independent financing.
Outside the studio system, there’s very little money available for development (optioning rights, hiring/paying writers for re-writes), but there’s TONS of money available for production. From the real estate barons like Sidney Kimmel and Bob Yari, to hedge fund companies like Legendary and Media Rights Capitol.
Informed, business savvy writers understand it’s dumb to try to squeeze money out of producers at the ‘cutting bait’ stage, i.e. optioning material before shopping for talent and financing.
Your decision to partner with a production company who’s going to try to put your movie together independently should be based on your faith in them CREATIVELY, that they understand the material and are passionate about it, and determined to put it together. Not how much money they’re going to option your script for.
You’re not trying to option your scripts for a few hundred bucks or a few grand here and there. That’s not what having a career in screenwriting is. Having a career as a screenwriter means you’re pitching for open writing assignments at studios, and going out for staff jobs in series TV. And writing/pitching original stuff, too, when you’re not working. That’s where the money is, that’s what a ‘career’ is.
Too many writers whine about ‘respect’ when producers ask for a free option. As a writer, you’re just showing your ignorance and inexperience if you do this. Again, it depends on what sort of company you’re dealing with–if 20th Century Fox wants to option your script for free, no, that ain’t right. But if a first look PRODUCER who’s BASED at Fox wants to do it, HELL YES, because that producer is going to submit your script to Fox, and all the other buyers once he’s happy with it, which would be awesome for you. Because it’s a chance to sell a script to a studio.
The difference is what kind of company you’re dealing with. If it’s a company that has their own development and equity money, you should get paid, because it’s their decision whether or not to make the movie. If it’s a production company without their own development/equity money, that’s just looking for material to shop to buyers and talent, and they want a free option, then yes, that’s fine.
So you’re doing the right thing. Don’t be ‘apprehensive’ about the free option deal you made. It’s a normal, necessary course, and smart, informed writers who understand the business know it, and do it all the time.
October 23rd, 2007 at 8:13 pm
Thanks again for the advice. The only reason I bring up the WGA detail is referring to the strike. At this point I do not think they would be talking to me if I was part of the WGA. From what we have been told by people is that studios are not buying much at this point.
October 23rd, 2007 at 8:47 pm
“So, Rodney, the truth is, if your script actually is awesome, and would make for a cool movie that lots of people would want to see, and if your agent/manager got it to a good number of companies, and the right kind of companies, it’s unlikely that no one would buy it. It’s more likely that it just isn’t good enough. Especially for violent action movies, which seems to be what you’ve written, because they sell well internationally.”
This is common advice in the message-board/blogosphere, but I’m not sure I always buy it. Let’s assume that Rodney knows the quality of his own writing and how it stands up to professionals’. Sure, it could be that the script isn’t good enough, but if you assume that Rodney knows his own work, then it’s just as likely that the writing IS really good but that the timing for it just isn’t right.
I remember seeing Paul Thomas Anderson in an interview (with Henry Rollins I think) in which he said that he reached the point with his filmmaking that if someone passed on a project, then it wasn’t necessarily that his work wasn’t good enough. It could be that his vision or taste simply didn’t match the vision or taste of the person across the table.
I know that we don’t want to give bad advice to less than talented people or to give false hope. But I think the knee-jerk “your writing isn’t good enough” response doesn’t tell the whole story. John’s advice on “Go” is an example of how sometimes it just takes finding people with a shared vision.
October 23rd, 2007 at 8:48 pm
Anonymous:
Since you seem to know all about this, I have a question. What if you are a screenwriter who is not really trying to “get in the business” in the sense that you describe. For example, rather than getting writing jobs and selling several scripts, what if you are more interested in getting one major Magnum Opus sold and it is this script that is described as “too bold” or “too fringe” or something, but is (lets assume for the moment, honestly) respected as good writing? In this case, what would you suggest?
Obviously, one could go to fringe indie producers, or more specifically, find people who are sympathetic to the style, subject matter, etc in question. Do you have any other suggestions?
October 24th, 2007 at 6:18 am
I had the same problem as Rodney. Everyone who is “in the business” here in Germany who has read my screenplay said something like “Whoa, that’s cool and fresh. It doesn
t look like a german filmscript. Will be a good movie." But as I asked for money, for the production they passed of. Some wanted to buy it, but not with me as the director which was the only thing I said is a must be. I didnt want my script being misunderstood or misinterpreted. After that I thought that I will produce it completely by myself. Luckily the Actors thought the same about the script as the other movie guys, so the money I spend will not be for there acting skills. The wait till money comes back to me to get payed. As I do the camera work, the editing and the directing all alone, the Money I spend for this film will all be on screen or be used for postpro-software I don`t own. But I must admit that I did all the work on my shorts, from writing to filming over to editing and grading, so I knew that I can do it.Time will tell if I was right with my decision , we start filming in a few days.
GPSchnyder
October 24th, 2007 at 1:45 pm
liberty,
It’s unlikely you’ll get your script made if you’re just ‘dabbling’ in screenwriting (i.e. you only have one script). And I doubt it could be a very good script–any good at all, honestly–if that’s all you ever even intend to write.
Good and great writers are brimming with ideas, and are possessed to write them. They have no choice. Writing chose them, they didn’t choose it. It’s part of your core, your identity.
People move to LA and spend years writing scripts and trying to get them made–more than years, decades and lifetimes, even. If you just have one script, if you don’t intend to write any more, if you’re not in LA, then you’re not really trying, you’re just dreaming, and I don’t see it happening for you. In terms of percentages, you need to be here, you need relationships, and you need to FIGHT.
Essentially, you’re competing with people who’ve dedicated their whole lives to the craft and business of screenwriting, so you’re unlikely to outmatch them. Unless you’re a prodigy and an outright genius.
There are prodigy geniuses out there–Travis Beacham and his script KILLING ON CARNIVAL ROW, for example. But most writers aren’t–they’re working class guys/girls who have to kick, scratch and claw for everything.
If you only have one script, and all your eggs are in that one basket, then you’re not serious about screenwriting, you’re not serious about the business, and you just like the ‘idea’ of getting your script made, but you’re ignoring the reality of it.
It’s like you’re trying to play in the NFL, but you never played high school or college football, and your workout regimen is a 45 minute rapid-walk in the morning before you go to work.
October 24th, 2007 at 1:56 pm
Hey Rodney,
From my experience — they are giving you an excuse.
Simple — make a list of all the movies and DVDs similar to your script and find out the producers/directors and production houses involved and give that list to your agent. If he’s not motivated, then hire a manager or do it yourself. That’s what I’m doing.
If you have an aggressive, well written gritty dark script — it will be made, maverick directors are always looking for these scripts.
You ever thought of turning your script into a graphic novel and grow a fanbase?
Best of luck, Benjamin
October 24th, 2007 at 2:14 pm
Rodney’s problem isn’t actually a problem. It’s the way the business works and his experience is actually very common. Which is why it’s wise to focus on the career you’re building and not just on one script. There are many reasons why a script doesn’t sell right away, most of which have less to do with quality than they do with actual or perceived commercial considerations. No need to assume it isn’t good enough. No need to doubt the positive feedback (people do lie, but since they called to heap praise, I’d trust it). On the strength of this script a) your agent can send you out for open writing assignments for which you’d be appropriate based on this script, b) send you to pitch to the people who love your writing even though they aren’t buying this script (and while you’re there, you should ask about open assignments, subject matter they’re interested in, etc., and you should ask if you can pitch for any of those assignments). As a working screenwriter, you will a) be paid b) have greater access to people who may help you get this (or any other project) to the screen. This will usually be a producer.
I happened to randomly come across an old Hollywood Reporter article that illustrates the point, using Little Miss Sunshine as an example. You can check it out at http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/hr/contentdisplay/features/columns/riskybusiness/e3if6f6d214a3f51357145ade0208961a18. There’s also a story behind Being John Malkevich, Forest Gump, Go (as John mentioned) and the list goes on.
Good luck!
October 24th, 2007 at 3:24 pm
Anonymous,
I tried to frame my question to avoid that obvious answer. That is why I said “assume honesty” etc. I can get that answer a dime a dozen. That isn’t what I was asking. I was asking what to do in the event that (wild fantasy, I know) the script is actually good.
Because you are pushing for it, I will give you my defense of my position. First of all, I didn’t say “someone who has never written anything before, is only writing one screenplay ever, etc.” What I said was “someone not interesting in writing lots of screenplays for money, but has one Magnum Opus.” There is a big difference.
What I am talking about is a professional in another area who is knowledgeable and wants to put to paper this major idea. Sometimes this can be someone who had a major life experience and works with a professional screenwriter to get this experience onto paper (but is talented enough to help) but other times, this is a historian or scientist or something who also has a knack for writing. A lot of professionals in other areas write books- many are nonfiction, but many read like a good novel. They often do this without a writers help, or without very much help from a professional writer.
I have been researching an area for several years, it is my passion, my love. I have also always considered myself a writer and have written in various formats (poetry, fiction, non-fiction) and have attempted screenplays a couple of times before, but aborted the process early on because I knew that the idea wasn’t solid and I wasn’t passionate enough about it to finish it. Now that I have a solid idea which is based on this area that I have been researching for its own sake, it is pouring out of me and I know that I will complete it.
Will I start another one as soon as this is finished (or even before)? Yes, maybe. I don’t know. However, I have no interest in running off to Hollywood to try to make it big. I am not interested in screenwriting for screenwriting’s sake. I am interested in getting my baby onto the screen – the story that I want to tell. This thing inside me that I will fight to the death to get onto the page and then fight another lifetime if necessary to get onto the screen.
So, now that I have wasted everyone’s time defending my position, would you do me the favor of answering my original question?
Thank you.
October 24th, 2007 at 4:40 pm
Rodney,
Paula’s post is very well put; she knows what she’s talking about.
liberty,
If you’re not a screenwriter and you have little or no ambition to be one, but you have a ‘great idea and subject for a movie that you’ve been researching’, I guess I would try to get an agent at one of the big five agencies to look at it. Then the agent could put you with a client who could help you get the idea set up and put into development somewhere–the client being a writer or a producer.
But when you approach the agent, don’t present yourself as a writer. Present yourself as an expert in this field you’ve been researching, and have something to show the agent what you’re envisioning–a treatment, an outline, background info on the subject that frames it in a cinematic way, or some sort of combination.
And don’t call big agents. If you’re going to cold call, find out who the lit department coordinators are at the agencies and hit them up. They’re junior-level agents who are looking to get promoted, so they’re the ones more likely to be scouting for projects/material to work on. Send a fax or email first, to introduce yourself and say why you’re contacting him, and what you want. It’s better to send something in advance of a phone call, otherwise it’s a longer conversation that you’re trying to hurry along.
You know, “Hi, my name’s liberty, I’m a scientist and I’ve been researching a subject that I think would make for a great movie, if I could just have a minute of your time, I…”
Agents hate that phone call.
October 25th, 2007 at 9:09 am
You’ve still managed to miss the point, Anonymous.
I was asking for a little suspension of disbelief. My question was if the finished screenplay happened to be good, but it was a tough sell because of the kind of things discussed above (too racy, edgy, fringe, etc) then what would someone do if the screenplay was truly a work of passion and not one of many different types of screenplays that the author was interested in writing.
Clearly, the answer “don’t write it in the first place, just get an agent to find a writer based on the (racy, edgy, fringe) idea” doesn’t help.
(Again, I have always been a writer so I might end up writing a bunch of others, but this is besides the point).
This subject area is my passion, and I write about it in non-fiction form regularly. I happen to be more drawn to the screenplay format than the novel format, and my screenplay is actually based on a novel. I am possessed by writing it and work on it every day. I am not against getting help from a professional screenwriter, however handing over a treatment and outline to an agent is even less realistic than the idea that I might produce a decent first screenplay.
My plan is to get through a couple drafts and then begin looking for sympathetic screenwriters as well as sympathetic agents, production houses etc. Once I feel confident enough in my draft, I can get help from professionals. I’ve always been told I need professional help, so thats no big shock :)
You won’t convince me to give up writing, so you can stop trying. I was just looking for a little practical advice similar to what Rodney was asking, but when the subject matter is what is edgy and the subject matter is also of primary importance to the writer.
October 25th, 2007 at 11:51 am
Liberty, There are a lot of “if”s in your question. If you write it and if it doesn’t sell, no one loves it, and no one fights for it to be made…then it probably isn’t any good.
From what I’ve seen it doesn’t matter if a great script is fringe, edgy, dark, twisted, bizarre, non commercial. If it is really really good then people will respond to it. It may sell, though never get made, and at the very least you’ll get meetings/assignments off of it. I don’t care if you write a script that is set during the Black Plague about a 1 legged blind midget who dreams of bigger things. If it is a great script with great writing it will get noticed and move forward in some manner.
If you have no interest in being a screenwriter but simply have 1 idea that you think is amazing and you want to see it on the big screen. Go ahead and write it, but if your just looking to make one big sale…then I wouldn’t bother.
October 25th, 2007 at 5:02 pm
Thanks Serial Assistant. Yeah, I don’t really care about “one big sale,” I just want to see it get made. I do want it to get seen by a big audience– that’s why I care about selling it right. I don’t want to get it made low-budget in a way where nobody sees it, if I can avoid it.
I only asked because it seemed like knowledgeable people might be able to help with little nuggets of wisdom. But really, I think you’re right and I think that I know what else I need to know about targeting the right people and so forth.
That one legged blind midget plague movie sounds good, are you going to write it? :)
October 30th, 2007 at 10:20 am
Liberty,
What everyone’s trying to tell you is that you don’t understand this business. They’re doing their best to try to help you out and YOU keep missing the point and having little temper tantrums when people don’t buy your premise. The truth is, what you are asking doesn’t make a lick of sense in light of how this business actually works. This is a business. Your question is sort of like asking, “what if I just want to build one house – I’m passionate about it – but I really don’t want to build any others.” Well, okay, if your’e willing to invest in architecture school and all of that to build that one house, more power to you. And getting a movie made is as big an endeavor (actually, bigger).
Feel free to write your screenplay. When you’re done, get an agent (who, by the way, will not be interested in representing someone who doesn’t want a career). Then, if you get an agent, he/she will send the script out to people who might buy it and/or help it along the road to getting made. Of course, odds are, nothing will happen, but if you’re lucky, you’ll find a producer who is as in love with the project as you are and who is therefore willing to fight for it. The other route, which almost never works, is to hustle your ass off to meet producers who might be as passionate as you are and to see if they will be willing to help you get it to the screen. Your best bet will be producers who have studio deals with discretionary funds. Of course, most of them won’t talk to you unless you come through an agent. But who knows, maybe you’ll find a way… And note this: when/if you do get your project to the screen, chances are you won’t be the only credited writer (in fact, depending on how good you actual are at screenwriting, you might not be credited at all). At the end of the day, if your script doesn’t work, any producer who gets involved will hire other writers who can deliver a script worth investing in. For all I know, you might be a brilliant screenwriter, but first-time screenwriters rarely are. Why? Because, it takes time to develop any craft, and screenwriting is not the same as novel-writing or non-fiction writing. Each has it’s own demands and very few people work in multiple mediums well.