Of course grammar matters
There is a question I’d like to ask. Regarding grammar on screenplays, how important is it to film companies, producers, studios, etc. I was under the impression, grammar can’t be filmed, so ? Your thoughts.
– Frederick
I’m generally of the school that there are no dumb questions, but I think your question is dumb enough to merit front-page attention. It’s also functionally ungrammatical, which gives it a nice bonus for irony.
Of course grammar matters.
It’s bizarre and saddening that aspiring screenwriters will agonize about the perfect margins and the proper number of brads (two), without ever considering whether a question mark might be appropriate at the end of a question. Or inappropriate at the end of vaguely declarative statement.
True, grammar can’t be filmed. But scripts are read by people, not cameras. And people deserve the best writing you can muster. That means matching your subjects and verbs, watching your tenses, and practicing careful punctuation.
Bear in mind: as grammarians go, I’m pretty lenient. English is not Latin, and many of the so-called mistakes are really just the opinions of stubborn jerks.
But wrong is wrong. And yes, it matters.
Your question was originally posted in the comments section of another entry. A helpful reader pointed you to my lengthy missive on professionalism, which unfortunately did not meet your needs:
It didn’t answer the question. It made a vague reference to presentation and professionalism. Which means, studios, producers will assume it’s great. This is really an annoying question because it puts people on the spot about their education, grammar is at all time low in America and no one wants to discuss it. I hope I’m not dropping a bomb here.[...] He was aiming for inspiration. Inspiration isn’t an answer.
If I ever start a line of subtly demoralizing t-shirts, I now have my first slogan: “Inspiration isn’t an answer.”
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April 6th, 2006 at 5:52 pm
Plus, even if your grammar is at America’s depressing all-time low, there is always someone willing to proof your material. I’m an English teacher. I’ll do it for free if I like you, a nominal fee if I don’t. I volunteer to copy edit people’s material all the time. There really is no excuse for sloppy grammar.
On the other hand, the fact that so many people have bad grammar makes my scripts look nicer. Maybe I shouldn’t proofread for other people.
April 6th, 2006 at 9:10 pm
Some bad grammar is a good thing in screenwriting. Sentence fragments get certain moments across quite effectively, and bad grammar is essential in dialogue unless you’re writing for Merchant Ivory. The most important thing is to know the rules before you break them. Grammar can’t be filmed, but incomprehesible screenplays make shit movies if they get made at all. Now if only I could get over the feeling that I am using the passive voice too much…
April 6th, 2006 at 9:23 pm
Annother grate posst.
April 6th, 2006 at 9:34 pm
April 6th, 2006 at 9:36 pm
3 is re. 2 not 1
April 6th, 2006 at 10:10 pm
can add this off top of my head. if you want to become very comfortable with grammar as it relates to style, write fiction. start simple – do 500 words on a trip to the store to buy a six pack. you’ll may find yourself tripped up fast. it’s not easy (even though the subject sounds brain dead).
screenplays typically have very short blocks of narrative. prose is one long string of crafted sentences – you have nothing to fall back on, no code, lingo, formatted dialogue, sluglines. if you walk down the street you have to describe it, not use: EXT. STREET – DAY, he walks out of the house, then walks up the street.
i just started writing short fiction. it’s done wonders for my ability (in general). highly recommend you give it a spin.
z
April 6th, 2006 at 10:19 pm
I’d buy that t-shirt.
But why stop there? You could expand into bumper stickers. May I suggest Calvin peeing on ‘inspiration’?
April 6th, 2006 at 10:21 pm
I am seriously going to resist the impulse to call this guy a dumdum.
Really.
The reason grammar matters is because it’s the easiest thing to get right, and getting it right means you have that much more of a chance of selling a script that’s maybe not genius material. It’s the EASY part. If you can’t handle th EASY part, it’s a BIG CLUE that you should probably not bother with the hard part, but go home and have a nice tall glass of Ovaltine instead. No need for working too hard.
Now, in theory, one could write a genius piece of work entirely in phonetic spellings, run-on sentences, and with punctuation that rivals James Joyce. In theory, you might find the one producer in the world who can not only actually understand what you’ve written, but thinks its brilliant. In theory, the actors and director might all be able to read it as well. Unfortunately, the bank doesn’t accept the mortgage check “in theory”.
April 6th, 2006 at 10:57 pm
Some people just read scripts instead of going to see movies. It’s cheaper, you know. Troy McClure does it.
April 7th, 2006 at 1:57 am
I’m always surprised by the amount of screenplays I read with bad grammar, but I’m more surprised when the writers I talk to about it shrug and say, “So?”. A literary agent I used to work for compared writers who cannot use grammar correctly to carpenters who cannot make a chair. You have to master the basics before you can get going and be taken seriously. Words are your only tools: the way you use them then surely shows what “kind” of writer you are, before you even go into the subjective nature of what is “good” or not?
April 7th, 2006 at 3:12 am
You’ve got a simple job as a writer, to translate the ideas in your head into words on a page. Bad grammar is confusing and makes intention unclear, meaning that you are not effectively leading your reader’s experience.
April 7th, 2006 at 5:52 am
to be fair to the guy, i think he was really wondering about his own level of english speaking ability and whether people would mind reading his scripts even if the grammar etc was awful.
i checked his site out (as i was curious why someone would ask such a question) and it turns out he’s an aspiring writer from somewhere in south america (i forget where)
the question he really should’ve asked was, “i’m a non native english speaker, will it matter about my grammar, spelling etc if i send my spec off to readers?”
in his particular case, i would think the answer is “yes”, as his english is not up to scratch.
in this case, i’d say to the guy, ask around and find someone who might be willing to correct all your spelling and grammar for you. maybe someone at a university or something like that.
that said, although this guy was a non native english speaker, i have seen a scary number of scripts around from native english speakers that seem to think spelling and grammar don’t matter. so this post is still valid to all of those donuts.
April 7th, 2006 at 5:57 am
just to be clear, as i don’t think i was up there, he moved to the u.s. in 1989. but still isn’t a native english speaker.
and he’s from the dominican republic.
(it was bugging me so i went back to check)
April 7th, 2006 at 7:16 am
I have to point out the beautiful irony of people posting about improper grammar, and consistently referring to themselves with a lowercase ‘i’.
April 7th, 2006 at 7:37 am
Bill Bryson’s book The Mother Tongue (I think that’s the title, it’s been a few years) discusses this pretty well. My “take away” from that book was about the “don’t split infinitives” rule. The reason you don’t split them in Latin (or French or Spanish or other romance languages) is because you cannot. Infinitives in those languages are one word.
You can’t split “aller” (“to go” in French) without cutting a word in two. However, in English the infinitive is always “to” plus the root. So, in English it is possible to split our infinitives, and we should do so because not splitting infinitives in English is like learning to juggle but not doing so because no one else can.
“To meekly follow rules” says it better than “to follow meekly rules” or “meekly to follow rules.” The adverb within the infinitive makes the object being modified so much clearer.
April 7th, 2006 at 8:26 am
As an editor, I deal, daily, with the sad state of grammar in America. Well-educated people cannot write a sentence, let alone a paragraph. So, his question is not surprising. Actually, I think it’s kind of sweet. At least he was nice enough to ask if it matters. Of course, this is like asking “Does steering matter when you’re driving a car?”
April 7th, 2006 at 8:43 am
hey earl, i have to point out YAWN
April 7th, 2006 at 8:49 am
I was always under the impression that grammar should be like a scrim: When it’s correct, it’s invisible. But when it’s poor, it sticks out like a sore cliche.
April 7th, 2006 at 9:46 am
Indeed, a dumb question. That’s like asking “Do you have to be a good writer to be a scriptwriter?” Umm, I think the answer’s in the question.
“Inspiration isn’t an answer.” You should have that as the blog’s slogan right below the “johnaugust.com” graphic at the top of the page.
April 7th, 2006 at 11:15 am
Mr. Abrasive –
Yes, I had a hunch that English wasn’t his native tongue — which is absolutely fine. I’d have a horrible time trying to write a script in Spanish or French. As I’ve said on other occasions, if a screenwriter isn’t confident with his grammar or spelling (for any reason), he owes it to himself and his readers to have a smart native speaker help him out.
But Frederick arguing that grammar is at an all-time low is like — well, you can think of your own cruel simile. That’s why I didn’t let him off the hook.
April 7th, 2006 at 1:10 pm
While I vehemently agree with every word uttered (or rather, typed) against bad grammar, has anyone ever tried to read a Quentin Tarantino screenplay? I mean, before the Miramax secretary retyped the entire thing, turned the gibberish into English, and inserted punctuation?
How that man ever got anyone to read his first script is beyond me. Maybe that explains why so many would-be screenwriters think it doesn’t matter.
April 7th, 2006 at 2:47 pm
Fred, I think the correct comparison is between
“to meekly follow rules” and “to follow rules meekly”
The other two you listed do not say the same thing as the comparison sentence; and, in the case of “meekly to follow rules,” the phrase is essentially nonsensical.
I am not a grammar expert, but generally speaking, you can always rewrite a split infinitive in a sensible way that sounds natural. Whether that is good or bad, I am not so sure I can judge. However, it was always my understanding the by placing the adverb directly after “to” is more inclined to lead to confusion that if it was placed in a different spot. An extreme example using a modifier: “The boy is going to run too quickly to get some ice cream.” vs. “The boy is going to too quickly run to get some ice cream.”
Generally, people will understand what you wrote even if you split infinitives right and left. So it doesn’t make a big deal, right? Well, if your screenplay is being read by a reader who is also a grammar nazi, well then your lack of “playing by the rules” may get your script a thumbs down vote (we all might like to think content is all that matters, but look at the “two brads” or “xxx margins” rules – and those, as opposed to grammar rules, are essentially arbitrary). It never hurts to use correct grammar. If it doesn’t “sound” right, then chances are your gramatically incorrect version sounds even worse (at least to some people).
April 7th, 2006 at 2:50 pm
Quote:
“However, it was always my understanding the by placing the adverb directly after “toâ€? is more inclined to lead to confusion that if it was placed in a different spot.”
I am one to talk (and no, that was not intentional). Let me rephrase:
However, it was always my understanding that the act of placing the adverb directly after “to� is more likely to lead to confusion than if it was placed in a different spot.
April 7th, 2006 at 10:27 pm
I didn’t know you could put “grammar on screenplays.” I usually put mine on toast.
April 8th, 2006 at 2:46 am
Frederick argued that grammar is at all-time low, but then so is courtesy it would seem… After I replied to his comment on John’s last post that started this one off, Frederick emailed me. I don’t mind that. However he included his screenplay as an attachment (unsolicited) and asked me to read it! Now again, that doesn’t really bother me that much, since it’s happened many times when I’ve mentioned on forums like this that I’m a script reader. However, he not only wanted to read one of mine, when I emailed back politely pointing out I have paying clients to deal with (not to mention the fact I’m due to have a baby in the next two weeks, making my time a little pressured to say the least), I get this email back: “Damn. Okay.” If I had emailed back simply saying “no”, then okay…But I’d even sent some links to him to help him with his 178 PAGE SCREENPLAY!!! So I don’t blame John for not letting him off the hook! : )
April 9th, 2006 at 1:05 am
Lucy says, “I’m always surprised by the “amount” of screenplays I read with bad grammar…”
One must assume she means, “number”, and also that she’s part of the problem.
April 9th, 2006 at 11:06 am
What a bunch of self-righteous, elitist, Ivory Tower bitches !!! I can smell the arrogance all way here in New York City. Have any of you nobody’s ever read Portuguese writer Jose Saramago ? Bad Grammar in every single page, yet, he’s published, and had millions of loyal readers all over the world. He had no formal education, yet won a Nobel Prize in Literature. No ? Never heard of him, his pages are filled with passion, horror, and amazing stories, and life. I may have bad grammar, but I can tell better and more exciting stories than most of you will ever muster in your lives. MFA programs in Creative Writing, (Master Fine Assholes) are usually so dry and acid, professors chastising writers for not writing in a particular vain, at least I’m not a product of any factory of mass-produced writers, which sadly, produces the same old shit. And yes, John, if I get caugh in any hook, I’m certainly glad it’s your gay hook. Life is about learning and growing, my grammar will improve, thanks to my critics, but my love and passion will never change. Hook or no Hook.
April 9th, 2006 at 2:28 pm
I agree with Frederick, to a certain degree. But I also know that unless you direct and produce your own screenplay, you have to follow by a certain set or standards in order to be considered by those ‘elitist Ivory Tower bitches’ for optioning… purchasing… and eventually production. I’m new to this game, but I do hope to break into it somehow (if my ideas, structure, and storytelling fit the bill). It’s a tight and narrow gap all screenwriters are judged from and allowed to pass through. Very few make it. Those that do are blessed.
Great passion though! I wish you all the best, and look forward to seeing your films in the future (if you have the winning combination we all aspire to).
~Devin
April 9th, 2006 at 6:07 pm
When I was at secondary school (UK, so between the ages of 11 and 16) I was in the top class for everything… maths, science, german etc etc — and yes, even english. I am now twenty-five and I’ve been actively writing and reading a lot since leaving college at 18.
I met my first intelligent partner almost 4 years ago and over these 4 years, he has delicately pointed out to me that my spelling is atrocious… my punctuation leaves a lot to be desired and my grammar is certainly not the best. Heck, I can’t even pronnounce some words that I’ve learnt from reading and heard no one speak (hat tip to Bernard Shaw who really knew his stuff there).
I have had to systematically use a dictionary to re-learn the simplest of words as I go. Take for instance the word ‘whether’, my whole life I have been spelling it as ‘wether’ without being corrected… which means I have continually being referring to a ‘castrated ram’ in my writing.
From being top of the class, I am now reverted to being bottom of the pile and I find it really frustrating that no-one has even mentioned this stuff to me when reading my poetry, short stories or even school work. I don’t even know where to begin with learning correct grammar! Just a case of being completely overlooked I guess.
I know for sure that I’ll need to brush up on everything and get back to sheer basics like syntax before I’ll feel happy to submit something to anyone. I also know there must be plenty of other people out there writing that have the same problems but why not get back to basics and learn? Surely you want to be able to express yourself and your imagination as coherently as possible? Imagine if beethoven had ignored the rules of musical notation, I wouldn’t be humming his 9th in the shower today that’s for sure.
Words are amazing… the whole idea of crafting them and moulding them within the rules of language is so beautiful to me, that I can’t understand why any writer would not want to harness that. Imagine knowing the rules in such a way that you can tango with them like Shakespeare? After all it is a craft isn’t it? It can be mastered and toyed with like paint or CSS.
As for the author with no formal education – there will always be exceptions to the rule, which worked out great for him. It doesn’t mean that you have a good chance of being snapped up though, it just means there is the possibility. Give yourself the best foundations that you can and you will increase that possibility.
Oh, and if anyone here wants to teach me grammar… or even point out my spelling/punctuation mistakes, drop me a line.
April 9th, 2006 at 6:37 pm
hey fred,
thanks for talking smack about those of us that tried to make sense of your stupid post.
fyi, i took the time to read some of your stuff on your site and it’s absolute rubbish. total junk. grammar or no grammar. so don’t kid yourself that YOUR grammar matters. it doesn’t matter at all when you’re writing crap. people can win a nobel prize with bad grammar if overall they are saying something interesting. get it?
i hope that some day we get to meet in a place where i am not a guest (as i am on john’s site) and can give you a full taste of how i earned my sobriquet.
love and (gay) kisses,
April 10th, 2006 at 6:58 am
Mr. Abrasive,
I am shaking in my boots, so fearful am I of you. Wow. You sobriquet will (gayly) be welcomed by me. You masquerading schmuck. So you say to-mato, I say tom-a-to, talking smack is what us New Yorkers do best, ever been to Brooklyn, no ? Try us Mr. Abrasive, we love the gay ass too, we can work it. I’m not gay, but I can work that butt of yours, I’ll run all the Abrasiveness out you Mr. “O Wow” Abrasive, you’ll love and kiss me after we’re done in private (or public if you like), challenges are my especialty, and just because you can’t understand my “crap” on my site, that doesn’t mean that others don’t appreciate it, after all Robert Frost was boring as hell, but many adore him, jean michel basquiat painted silly, childish things, and he’s considered a master by others, Vincent Van Gogh cut off his own ear (A FREAK if you ask me/besides being mentally disturbed) yet, he’s a genius… Where does that leaves you Mr. Abrasive, hiding behind your on-line persona, why don’t you do what real (gay) men do, face life, out in open and public, and stop hiding behind your electronic mask, like the shame you wish to cover of your sexuality, so too shall be exposed.
XXXOOO
Ciao
;-)
April 10th, 2006 at 7:19 am
By the way Mr. Abrasive, many have told and compared me to French-poet Charles Baudelaire… Again, another miserable artist who was ostricized and castrated by his contemporaries until he died, then, and I laugh, ONLY then, did they say he was great. The intresting thing about Baudelaire was that, he started out in life rich, and slowly wound up in poverty. It seems, the pen has hypnotic powers over us writers, hopefully, the reverse will be your decising destiny !
April 10th, 2006 at 7:21 am
Carol by the Thread-less Bed By Frederick Pina
Upon a season’s glee, dearest, husband of ill reprise my gentle eyes, whose teary nights summonds forgotten rags, smiling by cut memories long forgotten dearest, warm my cheeks by a stroke passing my lips
even in shallow winds would I sever my only limb come and breathe softly, into the pockets of perfection as a wife longs, and simmers callously in chilly noons I mourn bestowed jealousies, whose line of regression
assures my full wisdom, through hunger I displayed a filthy frame, to covet thine witty lies.
April 10th, 2006 at 7:45 am
Yikes!
April 10th, 2006 at 8:35 am
Wow, this has gone a bit twilight zone…Especially when synonyms now refer to grammar as well as linguistics apparently!
April 10th, 2006 at 9:02 am
My opinion: know the rules, then break the rules as you see fit.
April 10th, 2006 at 11:38 am
Well said – sentence fragments can have a place in screenplay writing. Nice one Derek : )
April 10th, 2006 at 11:50 am
Lucy, if you mean the references I made to Shaw and syntax, I’m not suggesting that they’re to do with grammar. I’m merely emphasising that besides spelling, punctuation and grammar, there’s a whole heap of stuff that can be learned that gets overlooked or ignored by those that want to write.
Personally, I think I’d look like a complete prick if I pitched a script to a bigwig and couldn’t pronnounce what I’d written.
Grammar is just the tip of the iceberg.
April 10th, 2006 at 12:00 pm
FunkyPink,
Why don’t you elaborate on those “heap of stuff” that writers over-look. This is why we’re all here, to exchange information and learn.
April 10th, 2006 at 12:02 pm
Also…
I’m having a problem formatting telephone conversations, example…
How dare these critics critize screenwriter Frederick Pina.
How dare these critics critize screenwriter Frederick Pina.
Whis is the correct formatting ?
April 10th, 2006 at 12:03 pm
FUCK… The word is CRITICIZE…. Sorry folks !!!
April 10th, 2006 at 12:17 pm
Whoa, Funkypink – I’m not suggesting that at all. Sorry if that wasn’t clear, guess it must’ve been the proximity of our postings. Someone got a bit frisky about my own use of synonyms earlier up the comments list, that’s all. I totally agree with you in fact : )
April 10th, 2006 at 12:20 pm
Frederick,
Well, this is my point, I’m now basically a complete beginner myself because I thought I already knew a lot the basics — how wrong.
I guess if I say some of the stuff I hope to learn?
I’m trying to start with the actual bones of language itself. Grammar covers a lot of that but I also want a good grounding in linguistics with phonetics and syntax. If I was to go learn Italian for instance, I would be taught all of these things, yet I am English, so it is assumed that I understand these things of my own language.
Then there’s stuff such as spelling, structure, timing/pacing, vocabulary is a good one… I don’t want to have to rely on a thesaurus.
Simple things that can be easily ignored I suppose by people who think they already know them. I guess that’s why so many screenplays are turned away — simple mistakes made by people who thought they were doing it right.
Hope that makes sense
April 10th, 2006 at 12:31 pm
Lucy, eek! Sorry, I got confused and thought you meant my post. I see which you mean now… hehe
April 10th, 2006 at 12:37 pm
Yes. I’m thinking of going to Brooklyn College and getting degree in English.
April 10th, 2006 at 12:38 pm
Yes. I’m thinking of going to Brooklyn College and getting a degree in English.
April 10th, 2006 at 12:43 pm
“Artists are here to disturb the peace.”
April 10th, 2006 at 12:44 pm
No problem Funkypink : )
April 10th, 2006 at 12:54 pm
Lucy,
Will you be writing an animated film for your new born ?
;-)
April 13th, 2006 at 5:34 am
grammar do seriously not matter. language had evolving with!
of course, grammar matters. sheesh.
May 1st, 2006 at 1:02 pm
Grammar matters. I am about to finish school and become an English teacher as a second language and I can not stand people mixing languages in horrible ways. If we speak English it has to be pure and grammatically correct, the same as if we speak Spanish.
May 3rd, 2006 at 7:50 pm
As a screenwriter and script consultant, I can tell you why grammar matters in a way that hasn’t been touched on yet in the 51 comments. It’s simple. When you write a script, you want the movie to play in the reader’s head. Poor grammar is a distraction that pulls the reader temporarily out of your story. Have you ever gone to the movies and seen a little piece of fuzz suddenly show up on the projector lens, right in the middle of the movie? Suddenly, you’re distracted from the story, and looking at that little piece of irritating fuzz. It’s the same thing with poor grammar. To get your masterpiece made, you must first get past the readers of your script. They are the initial gatekeepers. They are not looking to ding you for bad grammar. But trust me, anything that stops the movie from playing in their head as they read is a bad thing. – Scotland Miles(www.ScriptRepairman.com)
May 9th, 2006 at 7:44 pm
I am a newby myself, but I make it a point to at least correct my sentences (grammar for that matter) before I commit it to writing. So far, I’ve done wonders. I’m not being facetious here. I can actually announce, I’ve corrected pieces of work from people whose grammar are absolutely atrocious.
May 15th, 2006 at 4:03 pm
This was such a fun thread to read!!! Oh the drama!!
May 20th, 2006 at 8:34 am
Scotland,
That isn’t the point. On screenplays a fragment can convey more emotions than two or three property written sentences.