Robert Mckee
Have you taken Robert McKee’s screenwriting class? And if so, what did you learn from it? –Bill
To read his brochure, you’d think that everyone in Hollywood has taken McKee’s course, but the truth is, I don’t know anyone who has.
Whenever I hear his name brought up, it makes these tiny hairs rise on the back of my neck, because it usually means the speaker is going to cite some piece of screenwriting gospel, or use a clever word like "counter-theme."
I’ve never met McKee and have nothing against him, but to read his bio it’s clear that he’s not a very successful screenwriter and never really was. That’s not to say he can’t be a great teacher, just as many great film critics are not filmmakers, nor do I think that there’s anything wrong with a screenwriting class per se, especially if it helps you get off your ass and write. But I would rather have dental surgery than go through a structural analysis of CHINATOWN.
The downfall of these classes and books (Syd Field’s is the best known), is that the guru comes up with a theory about why scripts are good or bad, then manipulates the examples to prove his or her point. I remember one professor in graduate school who when confronted with counter-examples, would label some of the greatest movies ever made "failed films," simply because they didn’t fit her framework.
Overall, it’s worth reading a few books and taking a few classes to get a handle on how Hollywood talks about scripts and movies. Internalize what makes sense to you and chuck the rest. Kevin’s question goes right to the point: You’ll learn the most by reading a lot of screenplays, good and bad, and learning how they work.
The truth is, there’s no magic formula for writing a great script. (Or for that matter, a commercial one.) Anyone who tries to convince you that theirs is the One True Way is deluding themselves and you.
Articles
October 7th, 2004 at 12:46 pm
I took McKee’s seminar about seven years ago.
At the time, I had written two screenplays. I’ve now written a dozen — half of them for money.
At the time I took McKee’s course, I think it was more relevant because there was much less information out there on the internet.
I thought then and I still believe that no one should take McKee’s course who hasn’t written at least a couple drafts of a couple scripts. Because the key to his seminar is going into it with your own specific challenges in mind. The more advanced you are in your process, the more you can apply his advice to your own writing.
When I took the seminar I got the sense that a lot of development execs were taking it as a kind of Cliff Notes way of learning Story. “I’ve taken McKee. Now I can justify giving Anthony Minghella notes.” That sort of thing.
McKee is a former actor and stage director. He’s a crotchety old man. But he’s entertaining. I found it impressive that he was able to hold a room for 4 straight days by himself, and I was never really bored. He’s kind of the screenwriting guru version of Robert Evans.
McKee on first drafts: “90 percent of first drafts are shit, and as writers, our job is to identify shit, hunt it down, and kill it.”
That’s pretty representative of McKee. It’s tough talking in an amusing way, and it’s true enough.
Some of what he says is over-generalized. “Goodfellas? Bad movie. Too much voiceover.” But you could say that about most any academic.
I guess I find it interesting that you’re kind of trashing McKee without ever having taken his seminar. My sense when I took the course was that McKee had the right amount of sense of humor about himself and wasn’t espousing himself as the One True Way. His success, I believe, is more of a result of his personality, and a decent amount of sensible advice, than any One True Way cultism.
October 7th, 2004 at 1:00 pm
Jaymay,
Thanks for your review of the McKee workshop. It’s the longest and best write-up I’ve seen on it. Since I’ve never taken McKee, my only impression is from his mailings, which veer well beyond hyperbole.
October 8th, 2004 at 1:01 am
In every worthwhile endeavor, there’s ALWAYS some self-appointed guru who wants to take the mystery and fun out of something and turn it into something dreary and dogmatic. For me, Robert McKee is the Dr. Phil of Screenwriting.
October 9th, 2004 at 9:00 am
Ah, but his book, Story, is genius! The most useful book I’ve read (The Writer’s Journey comes close though) on screenwriting. If I ever need some inspiration or am a little stuck on how to approach something I pull it off the shelf.
Like Jayjay said, he doesn’t insist that he’s telling you the right and only way, he just shows you a very intelligent and well thought out way of thinking about the craft.
It’s easy to get confused and lost and forget things that you know you want to be doing with your work when you are deep within the story and it’s helpful to have all the common senses of screenwriting lumped together in one tome to refer back to – it forces you to try harder with your work instead of letting shoddy work slide though.
And if he says you really shouldn’t be doing something – such as flashbacks, dream scenes, voiceover etc… he’s usually right, and if you use them, reading this forces you to make sure that these elements are really justified and work as hard as they can for you.
And so he came, he saw and he babbled.
October 11th, 2004 at 5:52 pm
Though I’ve never taken McKee’s seminar, or any other seminar for that matter, I have read his book, “Story”. Typically, I eschew the many screenwriting gurus, namely because they either bore me silly or hit me over the head with a holier-than-thou approach that makes me want to puke. However, I was surprised with “Story” because it truly was different—funny, informative, and totally lacking any insider pretensions. I read it during a low period in my writing life, when I was really struggling to put words to paper (actually, text to computer screen). McKee’s gruff humor snapped me out of my funk, and his use of literary references endeared me to him. His no-nonsense style and passion for film put the zap back in my ass, and for that I’m grateful. I’m not sure, however, if I’d ever take his class, if only because I don’t want to shell out the cash, but I recommend the book. In fact, “Story” is only one of two books about screenwriting that I would ever recommend (“Alternative Screenwriting” by Ken Dancyger and Jeff Rush being the other). Take the time and read it. Like John said, internalize what you want and chuck the rest. And with McKee, you’ll get a good laugh to boot.
October 14th, 2004 at 12:58 am
I came across this article (from 10/4) about McKee on CNN.com. Here’s the link:
http://www.cnn.com/2004/SHOWBIZ/Movies/10/04/mckee.seminar/index.html
A journalist for CNN.com recently took the McKee Story seminar in Atlanta. And loved it. I own “Story” and find it endlessly inspiring, but I haven’t taken the Story seminar, partly because I feel you can get the same thing with the book–which is considerably less expensive. Yet, if I can find the time and the money, I’d love to attend the seminar. McKee strikes me more as a fantastic college professor–lecturing on my most favorite subject–as opposed to a Hollywood screenwriting “guru.”
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June 9th, 2005 at 2:06 am
I took McKee’s seminar in Calgary about 4 years ago.
BENEFITS: - A good motivator to drive the aspiring towards ‘perspiring’ (that is, working your butt off to write) - Punctures some myths about screenwriting - Gives a good foundation to screenwriting - Amusing anecdotes coupled with name dropping and self promotion (eg. John Cleese took my course and wrote a Fish Called Wanda)
But overall, perhaps the most important lesson I took from the course is the idea of ‘negation of negation’ … that one tip was worth all the rhetoric!
June 2nd, 2006 at 2:47 pm
McKee seduced my wife and murdered my shar pei.
June 13th, 2006 at 1:54 am
I think John Cleese (FISH CALLED WANDA, FAWLTY TOWERS) took McKee’s class before he wrote Wanda.
Guy Ritchie took the class before he wrote LOCK STOCK….
A friend of mine took the class in the early 80s. Those were the days when you were in a class of 20. As my friend walked in the two guys from ABBA were sitting there. They were writing CHESS and needed some help writing a 90+ minute story. They already knew how to tell a tale in three minutes.
I read McKee’s book. Excellent. Threw 50% of my first script in the bin after the read. On the very first telephone pitch I made it was requested, they phoned back to say they liked the script, gave me a few notes and asked me to get it back to them. Sadly, in a merger with Time, the exec lost his job. I learned much from McKee’s book. You take what you like and leave the rest.
July 6th, 2006 at 5:02 pm
The book is excellent and I am considering taking the seminar. But is it worth the money or will it just be a repeat of what I got in the book?
August 14th, 2006 at 7:19 am
I’m wondering about this last point too- if I own “Story”, is it worth going to the seminar? I expect that there’ll be some overlap, but does anyone know to what extent?
September 27th, 2006 at 7:37 pm
I took the seminar in 1998 and later bought “Story.” I thought that the book was the seminar between covers. There was a six-hour analysis of “Casablanca” on the last day of the seminar, but it wasn’t all that illuminating, in my opinion — it just gave McKee opportunities to apply his theory, which was too clever by half. I also didn’t really need to hear his rendition of “As Time Goes By” at the end.
January 2nd, 2007 at 7:25 am
I am a new novel writer. Would this seminar be for me? From all the posts above, it sounds like he spends most of his time referring to screen writing. Does it?
January 4th, 2007 at 2:57 am
The funnt thing about Mckee is that he says in the book that the master of the artform of screenwriting doesn’t follow any rules. He creates the rules. And then he spends 420 pages giving you rules! Ha ha I suppose he wants to set down a few principles – which is fine – but I do find some of the advice a bit dogmatic. His analysis of Ingmar Bergman’s script is completely wrong. Bergman never took his semianr nor read his book. And anyone who’s seen the film can see it’s obvious that his theory can’t be applied to it. One mustn’t forget that he makes his living giving advice to other writers. And that is much easier than to write yourself. Also that’s why he needs to ‘fascinate’ his audience. He needs their money to pay his bills.
January 25th, 2007 at 2:57 pm
I just took McKee’s course this last weekend. What a great experience. It goes beyond teaching screenwriting, it challegenes you to look at how you see life and to find the truth of it. And he makes no qualms that it is you that has to dedicate your life to following your passion. He gives plenty of warning to those that want just a hobby or feel they only have one movie in them. I highly recommend it.
January 28th, 2007 at 11:22 pm
I also attended the Palm Desert Mckee seminar last weekend. I have a Bach in English Lit, as well as a Master’s in creative writing. I found most of his information on writing to be standard stuff from a couple of good college writing courses. I did enjoy his breakdown of Casa Blanca, and for me, was worth the money. I could have skipped the first two days, and not missed a thing. I also thought his constant use of foul language to be infantile, and I was in the Navy! The real topper for me, was his cheap ripoff of George Carlin’s act and style.
March 2nd, 2007 at 9:23 pm
I took his seminar in NYC last spring because, well, I thought I should. I have to be honest and say, you know what? Did not find it all that inspiring. I mean, it was sort of inspiring to sit in a room with LOTS of other writers (I live in NYC, so don’t meet that many screenwriters), but I thought McKee’s whole shtick was extremely tiresome — crockety old white guy who yells at people! And then, during the break (outside on 57th Street in front of the DGA Building), all of these aspiring screenwriters were clustered around McKee to speak with him — can you get me an agent? etc, etc, while McKee furiously (and I mean furiously) puffed on his cigarette and scowled.
I got my BA in English, am a journalist and published three bestsellers (and have written four screenplays years ago), and did not get all that much out of the course. I mean, it was entertaining, but the whole thing had sort of a “1970’s, let’s go to Elaine’s” type vibe.
And the whole critique Casablanca line by line was back-achingly uncomfortable (it was hard to sit in those seats for hours on end).
If you can do without the performance, I would imagine someone could get just as much from his book. And I find it extremely telling that John (and no one he knows) has taken McKee’s course. Similar to the fact that NONE of the writers I have known have gone to graduate school.
Hope this helps.
ps — and yes, I am no prude, but the tough guy language gets EXCEEDINGLY tiresome.
June 27th, 2007 at 8:42 am
I have taken McKee’s seminar twice (learned a lot the second time too, there is just so much value, you can’t grasp it all in one session). I also bought STORY, the book. And yes, the book came out of the seminar. And if you can’t afford the seminar, the book is a good alternative. But the seminar, to me, is much more inspiring, more detailed, more “in-your-face” and well worth attending.
Since taking McKee’s seminar, I have had my screenplay optioned three times and have written (for a real publisher) a 3-book Young Adult Fiction series. I credit it all to having taken McKee’s course.
August 14th, 2007 at 12:27 am
Is Robert McKee’s whiteness at all relevant to his tone of voice Pamela, or are you just another self-hating ‘white bitch’?
August 31st, 2007 at 1:28 pm
I have taken the course in Tel Aviv during Mckee’s second visit to Israel in November 2006. I have to say, this course was a very inspiring experience to me, and it really ignited the spark in me. Mckee is a tough person; he even told me firmly “Go Away!” when I tried to challenge his claim that Casablanca is the best screenplay of all time, but his personality after all in all really adds a charm to this course. And he had seen them all, all the types of movies, from all over world and of all eras. The course itself may not be suitable for advanced writers, like Pamela above, but yet again, maybe yes because the advanced are the ones who tend to forget the basics that make all things so great.
By the way, it’s interesting to see that this page is still receiving posts on a topic from 2003! And if anybody is interested, here’s the Wikipedia article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_mckee
September 9th, 2007 at 2:53 pm
Hi John -
My name is Derek Christopher and I work with Robert McKee. Have you read Bob’s book STORY? If not, I’d be happy to send you a copy. Just drop me a note and let me know where to send it. I’d like to hear your thoughts and opinions on it.
And there are actually quite a few well-known screenwriters out there who have taken and praise the class – Akiva Goldsman, Peter Jackson, William Goldman, Zak Penn and others.
Thanks. Maybe I can even talk you in to coming to the seminar one day.
September 18th, 2007 at 2:34 am
Hi Derek, Thank you for the offer, I already have the Hebrew version of the book, but it would be great to have the original English version as well :)
To contact me, just click my name above and you’ll reach my website where an e-mail address is published.
Once I have the original English version of STORY, I’ll be able to express my detailed thoughts and opinion on it. I have to say that the Hebrew version appears to be very well-translated, and the book as a whole is a more detailed version of the live seminar.
Regarding talking me into coming to the seminar, well I already took the seminar (see my previous post), so there’s no need :) I may want to take the seminar again, if the location would be Israel again, or if I would be able to travel abroad. But more importantly, I have to finish writing my first screenplay.
Best regards (to Bob as well), John Hyams
September 22nd, 2007 at 1:28 pm
Derek, if your post was meant for John August, then sorry for the misunderstanding :)…
October 2nd, 2007 at 4:14 pm
I just took the seminar this past weekend and it was phenomenal. Robert McKee, I sincerely believe, is misunderstood. People claim he gives you answers on how to write a great screenplay. On the contrary, he gives you tools to write in any medium. Having already read the book and written a few screenplays, I went into the seminar not expecting too much more than I already had read. However listening to him speak (and he is an amazing public speaker) was an education in its own. He clearly cares for the art to which he and his students are attempting to excel. I left the seminar feeling re-inspired and equipped to write my next screenplay, without the doubt that it might not be as good as I know it could be.
November 16th, 2007 at 11:31 am
I have read several books about writing screenplays and right now I am looking for how-to-write for TV books.
And though I read STORY (very useful, but hard to read book), I still think David Trottier’s Screenwriter’s Bible is one of the best books about screenwriting. It’s very easy to read and it has more information about how the film industry works than what you can find in STORY.
I also read Screenwriting Tricks of the Trade by William Froug, a well-known TV producer and a winner of Emmy award. I enjoyed reading that book, but it was too short and it was published on early 90s, and by today Hollywood had changed. Also I found his theory making no sense for me. He tried to explain that writing without any formula is the best way. I am agreed that formula can kill your script, but starting writing your first script without any structure and the basic outline just directed me to the wrong road.
By the way, Mr. August. If you don’t mind, could you please tell more about how did you get your first job in film industry (as I remember you were a script reader).
December 18th, 2007 at 9:23 am
I’ve never taken McKee’s seminar, not being inclined to pay a lot of money to be sworn at and given orders (I had all that in the Canadian Air Force and they paid me), but I bought the book. It doesn’t seem to me that there’s anything new in it; it’s merely a badly-organised exposition of classical Aristotelian story structure. As for that overrated soap opera “Casablanca”, my mother was actually living in Casablanca during World War II. Everybody there had heard about the film, and was eager to see it. When it arrived, the entire audience howled with laughter all the way through, because it couldn’t have been more ludicrously removed from the real Casablanca.
March 8th, 2008 at 11:38 pm
John writes: “The downfall of these classes and books (Syd Field’s is the best known), is that the guru comes up with a theory about why scripts are good or bad, then manipulates the examples to prove his or her point.”
One example of an academic who decidedly does not do this is Kristin Thompson in her book, Storytelling in the New Hollywood (1997). She takes an empirical look at dozens of films throughout Hollywood history, to see how “classical” films actually tell their stories. And her in-depth analyses of ten recent films (from Alien, 1979, to Groundhog Day, 1993) are wonderful examples of insight. Groundhog Day is one of my favorite films, but after reading Thompson’s chapter on it, I felt as if I’d never seen the film before.