Subtitled success stories
Somewhat remarkably, the top two movies in America have subtitles. Lots and lots of subtitles.
I’d estimate that Inglourious Basterds is less than 50 percent English, with the rest being a mix of German, French and hilariously inadequate Italian, almost all of it subtitled. District 9 uses subtitles for the Prawn, along with Afrikaans, native languages and some difficult-to-understand English.
Two movies is not a trend. But I’m noting these two success stories for the next time I’m told audiences won’t tolerate subtitles.
One other observation about District 9: It’s the first movie I can recall in which two groups could largely understand the each other’s language without being able to speak it. That is, Wikus speaks English to Christopher, who answers back in Prawn. The movie suggests that humans are physically incapable of speaking Prawn, and vice-versa. It’s an interesting choice, and helps keep the Prawn more alien.
Filed under: Film Industry, International, Words on the page
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August 24th, 2009 at 12:11 pm
why are Hollywood studios so convinced that American audiences won’t tolerate subtitles (or foreign films, for that matter)? Do they think we’re that dumb and isolated? Please. Slumdog Millionaire was heavily subtitled and of course, a huge megahit. Don’t forget the massive popularity of the 2001 French film, AMELIE, either.
August 24th, 2009 at 12:11 pm
District 9 was a great ride. I also found it interesting, how the humans and aliens could understand each other, but not actually speak the other’s language. Until that was clear, it was a little distracting…especially in some of the “documentary” footage, where it felt like the filmmakers had accidentally broken the diegesis of the film.
August 24th, 2009 at 12:15 pm
This points up a flaw in the scene between Han Solo and Greedo in Star Wars. They speak in their own language and can understand the other’s language, but there doesn’t seem to be any reason Han couldn’t speak in Greedo’s language or vice-versa. Greedo speaks with an electronically enhanced human voice. It’s still a great scene, but it shows how the makers of District 9 really went the distance in terms of making the interactions between their characters logical.
And yes, before you ask, I don’t have a life.
August 24th, 2009 at 1:27 pm
here’s wishing ponyo had had a wider sub-titled release. i understand the need for younger-than-reading-age children to be able to hear the characters, but the americanization of studio ghibli films drives me nuts!
August 24th, 2009 at 1:34 pm
I overheard some people in the theater after District 90 ended talking about how they actually preferred the subtitles, because they knew what was being said. Apparently some Midwesterners have difficulty understanding South African accents.
August 24th, 2009 at 1:38 pm
Wait a sec. I watched all of District 9 (which had a few minor issues but overall I loved it) and remember wondering if the humans could understand Prawn. There is one scene where Wikus is under Christopher’s shack (in the pilot pod) and he says something and Wikus turns and repeats it back which leads me to think they can. I wish I could be more detailed.
Also keep in mind, movies aren’t advertised as “subtitled.” Opening weekend audiences paid to see these movies not knowing this. This is like the fallacy people don’t like downer endings but you don’t know it’s a downer until you see it. It’s unfair like test screening questions such as “What part of the film did you like least?” which is completely different than what they should ask, “Is there a part that’d keep you from recommending this movie?” Of course, the worse part of Philadelphia is Tom Hanks dying but that character has to die for that movie to mean anything. Eventhough people don’t like it, I don’t think they’d change it.
@DeafEars: Lucas does a brillant thing in the original Star Wars trilogy and that is one character speaks in Wookiee, astromech or whatever and the second character reacts and subtley translates. Ponda Baba (Walrus Man) says something in the Cantina to Luke and his drinking buddy says, “My friend doesn’t like you.” We don’t need the subtitles because Drinking Buddy just told us what he said. It floors me that Lucas felt the need to have everyone in Episodes I – III speak English with an accent and then you run the risk of having an accent that sounds familiar and is a stereotype. Big mistake.
August 24th, 2009 at 1:53 pm
Is it weird that I get slightly offended seeing so many people refer to the aliens in District 9 as “prawns,” since that was a derogatory term in the film? Or does it just mean the movie worked really well?
August 24th, 2009 at 1:57 pm
You also have TV series like Heroes and Lost using a whole lot of subtitled dialogue. And yes, the film Slumdog Millionaire. I suspect people who didn’t like subtitles have gradually warmed to them over the past decade and a half or so, just like they have to watching widescreen movies and series on their 4:3 TVs. Which just goes to show you that the average Joe isn’t always as stupid and inane as some folks are afraid he is; they just don’t give him a chance.
Didn’t care for District 9, but Inglourious Basterds had some brilliant moments — particularly the first scene. Incredible. I know we always think first of Tarantino’s directing, but in my opinion that scene demonstrates again that he’s just as fantastic as a screenwriter. The movie was a bit short on momentum from scene to scene, though.
August 24th, 2009 at 2:21 pm
at DeafEars: I am Spanish, and in Spain three more languages are spoken appart from Spanish. I am more comfortable speaking Galician, while most of my friends are more comfortable speaking Spanish, so often we talk to each other in different languages that we both understand. What I meant to say is that I don’t think it is necessarily a flaw in that scene, just reflects a kind of society that maybe it doesn’t bother enough to explain. In Blade Runner, Edward James Olmos’ character talks in a mixture of several languages while Deckard speaks English, but they both understand each other. Although I think that in the first version of the film -the one with constant voiceover- Deckard explains a bit about that language.
August 24th, 2009 at 2:26 pm
at John: you may want to add “The Passion of the Christ” to that list.
August 24th, 2009 at 2:53 pm
And Apocalypto…
August 24th, 2009 at 3:57 pm
On the opposite side of the spectrum, I heard a lot of people complaining about how many “words they had to read” while I was leaving Inglorious Basterds. The country isn’t quite there yet, it seems.
August 24th, 2009 at 4:25 pm
@James
It’s clear that the humans and Prawns can understand each other’s language. The one scene in particular with Wikus is when Christopher tells him it’ll be three years to fix him and Wikus asks him to repeat it, but “slower with the clicking.” Wikus clearly understands him, just wants to hope he didn’t.
@Nick
I had the same initial reaction, actually. But we don’t really have a better term for them. It’s never stated what they call themselves, nor what the “politically correct” term is in their world, and “aliens” doesn’t seem much better. And moving forward and talking movies/sci-fi with friends and colleagues, it’s easier to say “prawn” than “alien from District 9.”
August 24th, 2009 at 4:28 pm
After watching it: Inglorious Basterds was the EXACT reason why I didn’t bother seeing Valkyrie. I don’t have any idea how good the movie was, and I still haven’t seen it, but it didn’t interest me to see some guy who was supposed to be a German Nazi higher-up speaking plain English and everyone else around him using either Elevated American or British accents. Thank you Tarantino for making the movie without dumbing it down for the audience.
Also- the Sam Jackson stuff? Probably the most brilliant part of the whole thing, and in English. Why is it brilliant? Because when Tarantino hits us with English in this film, he makes it sound absolutely RIDICULOUS, IE Pitt, Roth, and Jackson. Way to jarr us.
Did you find the linguistic matchmaking as hilarious as I did?
August 24th, 2009 at 5:21 pm
Viewers don’t care if it’s not too invasive(read: takes away from the “pictures”). You could literally film a men’s bathroom if you do it right. I mean, look at some of the games being “cinematized.” It will only matter what the technique is.
August 24th, 2009 at 7:48 pm
@Nelson – thanks for that insight, I think you may be right. And actually Lucas would have ruined it by explaining it too much – by letting the audience figure it out, he’s showing us it’s this kind of society and not telling us. I guess the only quibble I have left is that Han and Greedo obviously negotiate with each other a lot (or did up to that point), so I’d think they’d use a common language so there would be no (or at least less) question about what exactly they were saying to each other.
Still have no life, btw.
August 24th, 2009 at 9:43 pm
I came out of District 9 wondering if the humans just refused to speak the “prawn” language – was it ever made clear? There was mention of the aliens’ use of clicking noises, which is inherent in a lot of African languages, so I think refusing to speak it would be another form of prejudice (you know, as if the film hadn’t presented enough!)
Good to know that heavily subtitled films are breaking through to the mainstream.
August 25th, 2009 at 12:06 am
At the beginning, Wikus can barely understand the Prawn. By the end, he’s practically fluent in their language. Took me out of the story altogether, not to mention the Transformer/liquidation-gore element introduced. A good, serious premise was ‘Transformed’ into the ridiculous.
August 25th, 2009 at 1:58 am
I have been entirely in love with subtitles ever since the advent of DVD players. Being partially deaf, I find the ability to… “hear” what the actors are saying without whipping the volume up to 11 and waking up everyone else in the house to be priceless. I remember being astonished when people complained about the subtitles in Crouching Tiger, and secretly wishing that every big screen movie could come with subtitles.
Sorry, I mean:
God, John, why are you such a jerk these days? Just because not everyone likes to READ when they’re at the MOVIES doesn’t mean you have to get all holier than thou from your Golden Hollywood Throne. And so what if Quentin Tarantino’s Italian is “inadequate.” He still has more “follicles” on his “cranium” than your uh… “head” does. Try censoring THAT, punk!
August 25th, 2009 at 2:50 am
I have a love for subtitles which was, shall we say, fostered in my childhood. I used to watch Chinese soapoperas with English subtitles, and probably learnt more English idioms than I did Chinese ones. Even when watching English movies, I still like to keep the subtitles on because I do want to catch every single word uttered, which is especially useful in thrillers with way too many places, people and foreign names. In a way, I also get to appreciate the words of the movie much better.
As for non-English movies, I always like to listen to the different sounds of other languages, so I would definitely keep the subtitles. (Although Spanish movies require you to speed read…even more quickly! They speak so fast!)
August 25th, 2009 at 4:51 am
As much as I loved Inglorious Basterds a lot of the people I know who have seen it hated the fact they had to do so much reading. I think this was more of an issue due to unusually long and dialogue heavy scenes.
August 25th, 2009 at 9:05 am
This post filled me with a renewed flush of love for District 9 aliens in general and Christopher Johnson in particular.
Just wanted to share.
Prawns!!! OH MY GOD PRAWNS!!!!!
August 25th, 2009 at 9:13 am
Graham (#19) – regardless of whether that would-be comic rant was ironic or intended to be accepted at face value, you obviously haven’t seen the film as the “hilariously inadequate Italian” referred to in John’s blog was intentionally hilarious. John was being complimentary.
August 25th, 2009 at 10:20 am
Dances with Wolves as well.
August 25th, 2009 at 10:40 am
Favorite “Un-Subtitled-but-coulda-used-’em” line from Basterds: “Lessn yew never wanna eat anether saur-kraut sannich…”
Graham. – When you go take your Flintstones vitamins… try to take more of the orange Barneys. Its for the good of the whole class. :)
August 25th, 2009 at 1:18 pm
It’s interesting to read the comments, because John’s observation about the two species being able to understand each other’s language without speaking it is actually something that, for years, in my own mind I called “Chewbacca logic.” The only other example I can think of offhand is the Asian gymnast in the Oceans’ 11 movies…he speaks his own language, but everyone else seems to understand him (and he understands English).
August 25th, 2009 at 9:34 pm
A friend of mine was born in China but grew up in the US. He speaks fluent english and mandarin, but when his parents call him, they speak to him in Mandarin and he speaks back in English. I asked him about this once and he said that it was because he had a hard time switching immediately from English to Mandarin because they’re such different languages and everyone around him (until his parents call) speaks english.
August 25th, 2009 at 10:24 pm
See, now, it’s all down to context.
In South Africa, with our 11 official languages, it’s fairly common for our citizens to understand one of the other languages without being able to speak it.
August 26th, 2009 at 8:55 am
Yeah, I grew up in Singapore, where Chinese dialects (definition is arguable) were banned and Chinese was taught to children in Mandarin. But my mother always spoke Cantonese on the phone, so I can still understand it quite well, even though I can’t speak it fluently.
August 26th, 2009 at 8:55 am
You write: “It’s the first movie I can recall in which two groups could largely understand the each other’s language without being able to speak it.”
How about Star Wars? Wookies and humans, specifically.
August 26th, 2009 at 12:09 pm
@ Pete: great point, couldn’t agree more. The skeptical side of me suggested they wanted the ‘romance’ and texture of an alien language, but not for the barrage of subtitles that would accompany dialogue from both sides (i.e. human as well) in the same dialect – a convenient, poetically-licensed bending of the rules of the diegesis. @ Keith G, your theory on this is simple and fantastic.
But I have another question to present to the panel: did anybody else find a slight logic flaw in the centerpiece ‘black fluid’? I love that it was an agent of genetic mutation. I love that the alien weapons needed a biological ‘key’ to be used, and having inadvertently acquired this key through contact with this fluid, Wilkus became a highly sought-after military commodity. Great.
But that it was also the fuel for the ship seemed a little contrived. Why would the ship need-biologically infused fuel to run, as opposed to the aforementioned biological key – dna through contact – like the weapons?
They didn’t need to be the same material, yet they were. I’m happy to be wrong on this, and I still thought the movie was pretty good.
Just wondering.
August 26th, 2009 at 1:55 pm
I don’t remember the subtitles in District 9 but I do remember the awesome alien weaponry.
August 26th, 2009 at 7:19 pm
When I was watching District 9, I definitely thought a lot about the understanding between Prawns and humans. At first, it seemed as though Prawns could clearly understand the humans while humans could only pick up pieces of what the Prawns would say. Then, it looked like after Wikus was sprayed with the “black fluid” (which, @JuniorSenior, I also thought it was strange that it served as both the fuel for the ship as well as the agent for mutation), he could understand the Prawn language clearly. Anyone else see that same situation?
I still thought the movie was great. I haven’t seen Inglorious Basterds yet, I’m going to try and head over this weekend to catch it.
August 26th, 2009 at 7:57 pm
@DownSouth: I believe it. I was working in Cape Town a few years ago and I made friends with a video editor of sitcoms done in Xhosa, and even though she didn’t really know Xhosa, she could still do her job well enough.
August 26th, 2009 at 8:28 pm
I didn’t mind that Slumdog Millionaire was subtitled; what bothered me was that the subtitles jumped around the screen and used illegible fonts.
Subtitles in Inglourious Basterds aren’t just incidental. At least twice, the subtitles are untranslated, and those were some of the biggests laughs.
JuniorSenior #31: “…that it was also the fuel for the ship seemed a little contrived.”
You’re not the only one who noticed. I wonder how that relates to The Perils of Coincidence. By limiting the number of MacGuffins, District 9 creates a more implausible coincidence.
August 27th, 2009 at 7:46 am
I’m from Switzerland and can only say that while you in the US might get more used to subtitles and start to like them (well, at least give them a chance), people here seem to dislike them more and more which is why we get less and less movies in their original language. Instead, we get the dubbed versions. True, Germany might have the best dubbing studios (even Pixar uses them to dub Studio Ghibli movies), but dubbing just isn’t the real thing.
Hearing people say “oh, I don’t like reading so much” just makes me wanna punch them. But then again, I just love English.
August 27th, 2009 at 11:20 am
@Tim — That’s the point and part of what’s so brilliantly subtle about “District 9.” (Spoiler alert) As he transforms, he also learns the language. It’s a sign of how much he’s becoming one of them.
August 27th, 2009 at 1:57 pm
This reminds me of going to El Mariachi after its release. It was a limited engagement in Pittsburgh, and I convinced a few friends that we needed to go. The dialogue starts, subtitles abound, and one friend exclaims, “You mean I gotta read?!” Good times.
I think that Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon probably played a major role in garnering the current round of subtitle-acceptance within the mainstream movie-going public.
August 29th, 2009 at 5:49 am
Slumdog Millionaire, yes, a recent sleeper sensation with subtitles. But the runaway hit in the category would be of course The Passion of the Christ. For us all here in Europe subtitles have never been an issue. We’re so used to them. There are exceptions though, and not for the better. There’s a wide practice in Germany to DUB foreign films, even for theatrical release! That’s just absurd. Why would you want to go see, say, Pacino’s Oscar performance and not actually even hear his voice? Anyway, in my opinion instead of importing a foreign hit and releasing it with subtitles, Hollywood tends to simply remaking it.
August 29th, 2009 at 1:29 pm
@Graham
Speaking of subtitles, I have a fun little story:
A few years back, when Crouching Tiger just came out on DVD, I rented it and watched it with my father. When he discovered I used the subtitles instead of the dub track, I decided to perform a little experiment.
I went to a scene and put on the properly-translated subtitles, but for the audio track I activated the dubbed version. When he heard and saw the vast differences between the two, and how the subtitled version was greatly superior, he was more than happy to watch the subtitles with the original language track. He was also interested to know that one of the main reasons for the discrepancies was that dubbed tracks tend to try and match the mouth movements of the actors on-screen, and thus have to alter the dialogue, and sometimes the meaning, out of necessity.
So, if anyone out there has a friend or relative who doesn’t like subtitled films, try this little experiment with them and show them the gulf that exists.
August 29th, 2009 at 4:09 pm
What I find annoying are films that ought to be subtitled and aren’t. Miami Vice, e.g. I had to turn on the DVD’s subtitles to understand anything Gong Li (and many others) said. I think this problem contributed to the now-conventional wisdom that MV wasn’t a very good movie, which I really don’t think is true. Fortunately this doesn’t seem to be a very common problem.
August 31st, 2009 at 12:45 am
Slumdog, too.
September 22nd, 2009 at 6:54 am
In the Netherlands all english shows and movies are subtitled. So I’m pretty used to it and so is everyone else here. Only cartoons and children’s movies tend to be dubbed. And even the children movies tend to be available in english with subs when they’re playing in the cinema’s.
We’ve all been trained to read fast by now. Our voice actors are always the same people and they aren’t to good either.