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	<title>Comments on: You know, like in that other movie</title>
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	<link>http://johnaugust.com/archives/2008/you-know-like-in-that-other-movie</link>
	<description>A ton of useful information about screenwriting.</description>
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		<title>By: Hunter</title>
		<link>http://johnaugust.com/archives/2008/you-know-like-in-that-other-movie/comment-page-1#comment-123336</link>
		<dc:creator>Hunter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Mar 2008 04:53:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnaugust.com/archives/2008/you-know-like-in-that-other-movie#comment-123336</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Without sounding too sycophantic (or should that be psychofantic?) I would just like to personally thank you for The Nines. It&#039;s probably my third favorite film of the decade behind Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind and The Fountain. It says so many of the things that have been rattling around in my head for years and it does them so much more eloquently than I ever could have. The movie was a joy to watch and so emotionally fulfilling for me.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I haven&#039;t liked all of your films. In fact, I sort of hated your collaborations with Tim Burton, but thank you for The Nines. It&#039;s good enough that I have Netflix&#039;d your entire catalog to give it another shot.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;And furthermore, thank you for having one of the most interesting websites on the net.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Without sounding too sycophantic (or should that be psychofantic?) I would just like to personally thank you for The Nines. It&#8217;s probably my third favorite film of the decade behind Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind and The Fountain. It says so many of the things that have been rattling around in my head for years and it does them so much more eloquently than I ever could have. The movie was a joy to watch and so emotionally fulfilling for me.</p>

<p>I haven&#8217;t liked all of your films. In fact, I sort of hated your collaborations with Tim Burton, but thank you for The Nines. It&#8217;s good enough that I have Netflix&#8217;d your entire catalog to give it another shot.</p>

<p>And furthermore, thank you for having one of the most interesting websites on the net.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Grumpy</title>
		<link>http://johnaugust.com/archives/2008/you-know-like-in-that-other-movie/comment-page-1#comment-121387</link>
		<dc:creator>Grumpy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Feb 2008 18:21:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnaugust.com/archives/2008/you-know-like-in-that-other-movie#comment-121387</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&quot;A crowded, smoke-filled watering hole of the twenty-third century... It does not have the bizarre qualities of the &#039;Star Wars Bar,&#039; which is across the street.&quot;
--Star Trek III, credited to Harve Bennett&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;A crowded, smoke-filled watering hole of the twenty-third century&#8230; It does not have the bizarre qualities of the &#8216;Star Wars Bar,&#8217; which is across the street.&#8221;
&#8211;Star Trek III, credited to Harve Bennett</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Carlo</title>
		<link>http://johnaugust.com/archives/2008/you-know-like-in-that-other-movie/comment-page-1#comment-121310</link>
		<dc:creator>Carlo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Feb 2008 03:16:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnaugust.com/archives/2008/you-know-like-in-that-other-movie#comment-121310</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Glad I could help. I&#039;m here all week! Haha&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Carlo&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Glad I could help. I&#8217;m here all week! Haha</p>

<p>Carlo</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Sung</title>
		<link>http://johnaugust.com/archives/2008/you-know-like-in-that-other-movie/comment-page-1#comment-121292</link>
		<dc:creator>Sung</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Feb 2008 23:29:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnaugust.com/archives/2008/you-know-like-in-that-other-movie#comment-121292</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Thanks, Carlo -- I really appreciate it.  I like your version better.  It&#039;s the sad (and wonderful, I suppose) thing about anything you write -- it can always be better!&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Carlo &#8212; I really appreciate it.  I like your version better.  It&#8217;s the sad (and wonderful, I suppose) thing about anything you write &#8212; it can always be better!</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Carlo</title>
		<link>http://johnaugust.com/archives/2008/you-know-like-in-that-other-movie/comment-page-1#comment-121262</link>
		<dc:creator>Carlo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Feb 2008 06:32:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnaugust.com/archives/2008/you-know-like-in-that-other-movie#comment-121262</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Sung, I think the new rewritten piece you have is still a bit heavyweight.
One start would be to replace the soldier bit with:
As the battle ensues, it becomes clear that there are two sides: soldiers in red and soldiers in black, with the red team MUCH more numerous than the black team. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Something along those lines. I&#039;m just spitballing. You can replace &#039;team&#039; with &#039;side&#039; if &#039;team&#039; isn&#039;t the sort of mood you&#039;re shooting for. And yes, they implicate different moods.
Team implicates more of a small scale war mood, while &#039;side&#039; implicates more political and overarching mood to the battle situation.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;You can call it &#039;directing on the page&#039;. Or simply being picky about words... Haha&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sung, I think the new rewritten piece you have is still a bit heavyweight.
One start would be to replace the soldier bit with:
As the battle ensues, it becomes clear that there are two sides: soldiers in red and soldiers in black, with the red team MUCH more numerous than the black team. </p>

<p>Something along those lines. I&#8217;m just spitballing. You can replace &#8216;team&#8217; with &#8217;side&#8217; if &#8216;team&#8217; isn&#8217;t the sort of mood you&#8217;re shooting for. And yes, they implicate different moods.
Team implicates more of a small scale war mood, while &#8217;side&#8217; implicates more political and overarching mood to the battle situation.</p>

<p>You can call it &#8216;directing on the page&#8217;. Or simply being picky about words&#8230; Haha</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: LadyUranus</title>
		<link>http://johnaugust.com/archives/2008/you-know-like-in-that-other-movie/comment-page-1#comment-121257</link>
		<dc:creator>LadyUranus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Feb 2008 04:34:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnaugust.com/archives/2008/you-know-like-in-that-other-movie#comment-121257</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I second hating on &quot;The Da Vinci Code,&quot; and that line  had a lot to do with it, for the exact reasons mike stated.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I have a question semi-related: I wrote a screenplay where the character&#039;s clothes/costume was important, but my teacher told me not to put that in the action line (or at least not to mention color, only that it was a shirt and pants). Is that a guiding rule? Because I found myself describing another&#039;s clothes in my current screenplay and I wondered whether I should take it out...&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I second hating on &#8220;The Da Vinci Code,&#8221; and that line  had a lot to do with it, for the exact reasons mike stated.</p>

<p>I have a question semi-related: I wrote a screenplay where the character&#8217;s clothes/costume was important, but my teacher told me not to put that in the action line (or at least not to mention color, only that it was a shirt and pants). Is that a guiding rule? Because I found myself describing another&#8217;s clothes in my current screenplay and I wondered whether I should take it out&#8230;</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: mike</title>
		<link>http://johnaugust.com/archives/2008/you-know-like-in-that-other-movie/comment-page-1#comment-121205</link>
		<dc:creator>mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2008 17:22:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnaugust.com/archives/2008/you-know-like-in-that-other-movie#comment-121205</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I don&#039;t think there&#039;s anything wrong with the occasional music reference, as long as it isn&#039;t overdone and contributes to the scene you&#039;re trying to get across.  Music is an important part of a movie, and while it is usually decided later on, there are definitely situations where it can drive a scene.  People dancing, or a group performing a song.  A song where the lyrics are appropriate to the scene (montage or dialogue).  Even if there isn&#039;t something explicit that would &lt;em&gt;require&lt;/em&gt; that specific song, mentioning a song can help the reader imagine the mood of the scene.  As long as it is done sparingly, I don&#039;t really see mentioning music as a problem, as long as it isn&#039;t done obnoxiously, worst case is probably the music suggestion is ignored and something else used (and even in such a case, a suggestion can be helpful to the guy picking out music even when he ditches it in favor of something better).&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;It seems comparable to the situation of describing a character&#039;s clothing, or what a location looks like.  Obviously, a character is perceived differently if they&#039;re wearing a suit, or jeans with a T-shirt and flannel shirt tied around the waist.  Things like that are given to help the reader imagine the movie, not to provide a blueprint for the costume designer to follow.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;As for movie references, seems fine for dialogue (and references you want the audience to see/hear), but generally lazy for description.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I think maybe people get confused by the use of movie comparisons in a pitch for a movie (&quot;Speed&quot;...but on a hang-glider...).  That&#039;s shorthand, and salesmanship where comparisons to movies that made money can help sell...in a screenplay it can seem tacky.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;My least favorite movie reference ever is in Da Vinci Code (the book, hopefully they left it out of the movie) when he describes the main character as &quot;Harrison Ford in Harris tweed&quot;.  All at once, a desperate attempt to develop a character through nothing more than name dropping, and a painfully unsubtle hint from the author who he&#039;d like in the movie version.  I can&#039;t believe that turd was a hit (book OR movie).&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t think there&#8217;s anything wrong with the occasional music reference, as long as it isn&#8217;t overdone and contributes to the scene you&#8217;re trying to get across.  Music is an important part of a movie, and while it is usually decided later on, there are definitely situations where it can drive a scene.  People dancing, or a group performing a song.  A song where the lyrics are appropriate to the scene (montage or dialogue).  Even if there isn&#8217;t something explicit that would <em>require</em> that specific song, mentioning a song can help the reader imagine the mood of the scene.  As long as it is done sparingly, I don&#8217;t really see mentioning music as a problem, as long as it isn&#8217;t done obnoxiously, worst case is probably the music suggestion is ignored and something else used (and even in such a case, a suggestion can be helpful to the guy picking out music even when he ditches it in favor of something better).</p>

<p>It seems comparable to the situation of describing a character&#8217;s clothing, or what a location looks like.  Obviously, a character is perceived differently if they&#8217;re wearing a suit, or jeans with a T-shirt and flannel shirt tied around the waist.  Things like that are given to help the reader imagine the movie, not to provide a blueprint for the costume designer to follow.</p>

<p>As for movie references, seems fine for dialogue (and references you want the audience to see/hear), but generally lazy for description.</p>

<p>I think maybe people get confused by the use of movie comparisons in a pitch for a movie (&#8220;Speed&#8221;&#8230;but on a hang-glider&#8230;).  That&#8217;s shorthand, and salesmanship where comparisons to movies that made money can help sell&#8230;in a screenplay it can seem tacky.</p>

<p>My least favorite movie reference ever is in Da Vinci Code (the book, hopefully they left it out of the movie) when he describes the main character as &#8220;Harrison Ford in Harris tweed&#8221;.  All at once, a desperate attempt to develop a character through nothing more than name dropping, and a painfully unsubtle hint from the author who he&#8217;d like in the movie version.  I can&#8217;t believe that turd was a hit (book OR movie).</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Donovan</title>
		<link>http://johnaugust.com/archives/2008/you-know-like-in-that-other-movie/comment-page-1#comment-121191</link>
		<dc:creator>Donovan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2008 10:31:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnaugust.com/archives/2008/you-know-like-in-that-other-movie#comment-121191</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;One of the worst &quot;movie references&quot; I&#039;ve ever read was in Jonathan Hensleigh&#039;s draft of THE ROCK, and it was in the actual spoken dialogue:&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;(Isherwood moves the syringe closer to his chest)&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;ISHERWOOD
Oh f(---) oh s(---) oh f(---) THIS IS LIKE F(---)ING PULP FICTION ONLY IT&#039;S REAL.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;.... Surprisingly enough, that line didn&#039;t make it into the finished film. Even Michael Bay has his limits.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One of the worst &#8220;movie references&#8221; I&#8217;ve ever read was in Jonathan Hensleigh&#8217;s draft of THE ROCK, and it was in the actual spoken dialogue:</p>

<p>(Isherwood moves the syringe closer to his chest)</p>

<p>ISHERWOOD
Oh f(&#8212;) oh s(&#8212;) oh f(&#8212;) THIS IS LIKE F(&#8212;)ING PULP FICTION ONLY IT&#8217;S REAL.</p>

<p>&#8230;. Surprisingly enough, that line didn&#8217;t make it into the finished film. Even Michael Bay has his limits.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Dominic</title>
		<link>http://johnaugust.com/archives/2008/you-know-like-in-that-other-movie/comment-page-1#comment-121171</link>
		<dc:creator>Dominic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2008 02:08:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnaugust.com/archives/2008/you-know-like-in-that-other-movie#comment-121171</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I think John&#039;s right - it&#039;s all in how you do it. There are no hard and fast &quot;never do this&quot; rules. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Diablo Cody&#039;s Juno screenplay is chock full of references - movies and music. Seemed to work out okay for her.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think John&#8217;s right &#8211; it&#8217;s all in how you do it. There are no hard and fast &#8220;never do this&#8221; rules. </p>

<p>Diablo Cody&#8217;s Juno screenplay is chock full of references &#8211; movies and music. Seemed to work out okay for her.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: LHOOQtius ov Borg</title>
		<link>http://johnaugust.com/archives/2008/you-know-like-in-that-other-movie/comment-page-1#comment-121166</link>
		<dc:creator>LHOOQtius ov Borg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Feb 2008 00:06:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnaugust.com/archives/2008/you-know-like-in-that-other-movie#comment-121166</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Re: Music.  In general, Sean is absolutely correct.  But, all rules are meant to be broken, if you are willing to pay the potential price.  I have a couple scripts in which I feel the music is crucial in certain spots, so I specify particular songs.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;One of those scripts -- one which specifies particular songs &quot;far too many&quot; times -- has gotten some of the best responses I&#039;ve had on a script so far, including the compliment that at least two readers couldn&#039;t put it down and lost sleep trying to finish it quickly.  It has interested someone (who is not an industry professional. mind you) so much they&#039;re talking to me tonight to give notes and talk about about possibly arranging financing for it (he and his friends have capital, enough to do an indie film).  However, it didn&#039;t place in any contests, and at least two readers have thought it was boring and slow.  Did referencing music copiously have anything to do with the negative reactions?  Or the positive ones?  Yes, to both.  It&#039;s all subjective.  &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;All these guidelines are intended to help prevent you from writing something so full of irritating pieces that readers claw their eyes out or jump off cliffs in order to get away from having to read another one of your dreadful pages.  But, ultimately, you need to do what you think is right for the script.  Maybe it won&#039;t get made, but that&#039;s the probable outcome anyway.  I&#039;ve heard many times that the only hard and fast rule is: &quot;Don&#039;t be boring.&quot;  However, I can recall a number of scripts I&#039;ve read -- some of which have been produced -- which flagrantly violate even that rule.  I don&#039;t recommend it, but if boring is your bag, and you can get away with it, more power to you (just warn me so I don&#039;t go see your film).&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: Music.  In general, Sean is absolutely correct.  But, all rules are meant to be broken, if you are willing to pay the potential price.  I have a couple scripts in which I feel the music is crucial in certain spots, so I specify particular songs.</p>

<p>One of those scripts &#8212; one which specifies particular songs &#8220;far too many&#8221; times &#8212; has gotten some of the best responses I&#8217;ve had on a script so far, including the compliment that at least two readers couldn&#8217;t put it down and lost sleep trying to finish it quickly.  It has interested someone (who is not an industry professional. mind you) so much they&#8217;re talking to me tonight to give notes and talk about about possibly arranging financing for it (he and his friends have capital, enough to do an indie film).  However, it didn&#8217;t place in any contests, and at least two readers have thought it was boring and slow.  Did referencing music copiously have anything to do with the negative reactions?  Or the positive ones?  Yes, to both.  It&#8217;s all subjective.  </p>

<p>All these guidelines are intended to help prevent you from writing something so full of irritating pieces that readers claw their eyes out or jump off cliffs in order to get away from having to read another one of your dreadful pages.  But, ultimately, you need to do what you think is right for the script.  Maybe it won&#8217;t get made, but that&#8217;s the probable outcome anyway.  I&#8217;ve heard many times that the only hard and fast rule is: &#8220;Don&#8217;t be boring.&#8221;  However, I can recall a number of scripts I&#8217;ve read &#8212; some of which have been produced &#8212; which flagrantly violate even that rule.  I don&#8217;t recommend it, but if boring is your bag, and you can get away with it, more power to you (just warn me so I don&#8217;t go see your film).</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Sean William Menzies</title>
		<link>http://johnaugust.com/archives/2008/you-know-like-in-that-other-movie/comment-page-1#comment-121165</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean William Menzies</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 19 Feb 2008 23:49:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnaugust.com/archives/2008/you-know-like-in-that-other-movie#comment-121165</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;No music reference either, unless the sound of the song is directly related to the story. In Lean&#039;s BRIEF ENCOUNTER, only Rachmaninoff&#039;s piano concerto is used as a score and it is directly connected to the radio in Laura&#039;s living room that she turns on, then works its way in and out of the entire film.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Unless the music - jumpy, hip-hoppy, swing or otherwise - is pertinent to the story, don&#039;t mention it. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I&#039;ve never been paid to write, so you can throw my advice out the window if you wish. It&#039;s just happens to be my writing style to make every script it&#039;s own complete entity, without relying on hints from other people&#039;s works. Unless it is supposed to be a reference in the story.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No music reference either, unless the sound of the song is directly related to the story. In Lean&#8217;s BRIEF ENCOUNTER, only Rachmaninoff&#8217;s piano concerto is used as a score and it is directly connected to the radio in Laura&#8217;s living room that she turns on, then works its way in and out of the entire film.</p>

<p>Unless the music &#8211; jumpy, hip-hoppy, swing or otherwise &#8211; is pertinent to the story, don&#8217;t mention it. </p>

<p>I&#8217;ve never been paid to write, so you can throw my advice out the window if you wish. It&#8217;s just happens to be my writing style to make every script it&#8217;s own complete entity, without relying on hints from other people&#8217;s works. Unless it is supposed to be a reference in the story.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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