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	<title>Comments on: Does a working writer keep improving?</title>
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	<link>http://johnaugust.com/archives/2008/does-a-working-writer-keep-improving</link>
	<description>A ton of useful information about screenwriting.</description>
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		<title>By: Emily</title>
		<link>http://johnaugust.com/archives/2008/does-a-working-writer-keep-improving/comment-page-1#comment-145422</link>
		<dc:creator>Emily</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 05:18:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnaugust.com/?p=1029#comment-145422</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I used to be just like Scott! then a few things happened:&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I read STORY by Robert McKee...&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;...I started playing &quot;He&#039;s the killer!&quot; or its endless variations such as &quot;She&#039;s actually the hero&#039;s mom!&quot; &quot;They&#039;re going to die in a few scenes!&quot; and &quot;OMG he&#039;s sleeping with one of his students!&quot;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;... and I wrote ten short films without dialogue and ten short films with, and shot three out of the 20. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Now I feel pretty good about my grasp on structure, or at least that it&#039;s growing at an appropriate, not-stunted rate.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Because when you come down to it, a &quot;weakness when it comes to knowing what the right scenes are in the right order&quot; isn&#039;t a structure problem, it&#039;s a confidence problem. It&#039;s only a structure problem if your scenes are in the WRONG order, at which point you&#039;ll have a specific, identifiable problem which you, as a good writer, will address. Your problem isn&#039;t that you&#039;re getting it wrong, it&#039;s that you don&#039;t feel certain; you don&#039;t &quot;know.&quot; &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;People who love writing dialogue often suspect themselves of being bad at plot or story. I agree with John&#039;s idea of writing in a different genre, but for a different reason--I  think the more you write heists and mysteries the more &quot;structury&quot; you&#039;ll feel since those are the &quot;structure&quot; genres.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I used to be just like Scott! then a few things happened:</p>

<p>I read STORY by Robert McKee&#8230;</p>

<p>&#8230;I started playing &#8220;He&#8217;s the killer!&#8221; or its endless variations such as &#8220;She&#8217;s actually the hero&#8217;s mom!&#8221; &#8220;They&#8217;re going to die in a few scenes!&#8221; and &#8220;OMG he&#8217;s sleeping with one of his students!&#8221;</p>

<p>&#8230; and I wrote ten short films without dialogue and ten short films with, and shot three out of the 20. </p>

<p>Now I feel pretty good about my grasp on structure, or at least that it&#8217;s growing at an appropriate, not-stunted rate.</p>

<p>Because when you come down to it, a &#8220;weakness when it comes to knowing what the right scenes are in the right order&#8221; isn&#8217;t a structure problem, it&#8217;s a confidence problem. It&#8217;s only a structure problem if your scenes are in the WRONG order, at which point you&#8217;ll have a specific, identifiable problem which you, as a good writer, will address. Your problem isn&#8217;t that you&#8217;re getting it wrong, it&#8217;s that you don&#8217;t feel certain; you don&#8217;t &#8220;know.&#8221; </p>

<p>People who love writing dialogue often suspect themselves of being bad at plot or story. I agree with John&#8217;s idea of writing in a different genre, but for a different reason&#8211;I  think the more you write heists and mysteries the more &#8220;structury&#8221; you&#8217;ll feel since those are the &#8220;structure&#8221; genres.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: dianejwright</title>
		<link>http://johnaugust.com/archives/2008/does-a-working-writer-keep-improving/comment-page-1#comment-136522</link>
		<dc:creator>dianejwright</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jun 2008 03:44:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnaugust.com/?p=1029#comment-136522</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Hi all. Yep, story structure is a toughie. It can certainly be learned (thank god) but for some (me, I think) it comes a little easier. It&#039;s something about seeing the forest through the trees? Much of it--after you internalize the ropes--is intuitive. You just feel where stories are working and where they aren&#039;t. Then you can trot out your tools and paradigms and beat sheets to help pinpoint the trouble and plot a better course to a satisfying story. Half the work I do is helping screenwriters understand where and why the story falls short of their expectations!&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;On my site, I&#039;ve posted a few great books that I share with my workshop participants. They all give different viewpoints on one of our oldest activites: storytelling. If you don&#039;t find one that works for you, just try another. Listen for the voice that speaks to you. Then get your notebook out and start breaking down films you love, minute by minute.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Here&#039;s the site:  http://story.fatbrain.ca  [[ The Story Spot ]]&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Look for THE READING LIST in the right column. 
/diane&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi all. Yep, story structure is a toughie. It can certainly be learned (thank god) but for some (me, I think) it comes a little easier. It&#8217;s something about seeing the forest through the trees? Much of it&#8211;after you internalize the ropes&#8211;is intuitive. You just feel where stories are working and where they aren&#8217;t. Then you can trot out your tools and paradigms and beat sheets to help pinpoint the trouble and plot a better course to a satisfying story. Half the work I do is helping screenwriters understand where and why the story falls short of their expectations!</p>

<p>On my site, I&#8217;ve posted a few great books that I share with my workshop participants. They all give different viewpoints on one of our oldest activites: storytelling. If you don&#8217;t find one that works for you, just try another. Listen for the voice that speaks to you. Then get your notebook out and start breaking down films you love, minute by minute.</p>

<p>Here&#8217;s the site:  <a href="http://story.fatbrain.ca" rel="nofollow">http://story.fatbrain.ca</a>  [[ The Story Spot ]]</p>

<p>Look for THE READING LIST in the right column. 
/diane</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: nzlemming</title>
		<link>http://johnaugust.com/archives/2008/does-a-working-writer-keep-improving/comment-page-1#comment-136190</link>
		<dc:creator>nzlemming</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Jun 2008 22:48:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnaugust.com/?p=1029#comment-136190</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;@ 7. Johnny:
I&#039;m curious as to how you can watch a movie with your eyes closed.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ 7. Johnny:
I&#8217;m curious as to how you can watch a movie with your eyes closed.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Tangent128</title>
		<link>http://johnaugust.com/archives/2008/does-a-working-writer-keep-improving/comment-page-1#comment-135227</link>
		<dc:creator>Tangent128</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 00:01:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnaugust.com/?p=1029#comment-135227</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;&lt;a href=&quot;http://tvtropes.org&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;TV Tropes&lt;/a&gt; can be a helpful read.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://tvtropes.org" rel="nofollow">TV Tropes</a> can be a helpful read.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Mike</title>
		<link>http://johnaugust.com/archives/2008/does-a-working-writer-keep-improving/comment-page-1#comment-135047</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 May 2008 08:43:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnaugust.com/?p=1029#comment-135047</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I find that stealing ideas works really well. Oh, did I say that?&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Seriously though you&#039;re always learning, even after getting work picked up you never stop. Our company usually has lots of things in development, but we still do training and research for each project. Growing in skill sets as we go.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Talking to other writers and industry professionals helps a huge amount, as many comments here have said. As I&#039;m pretty new to the commercial film scene I&#039;ve found out so much from dealing with other professionals.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I find that stealing ideas works really well. Oh, did I say that?</p>

<p>Seriously though you&#8217;re always learning, even after getting work picked up you never stop. Our company usually has lots of things in development, but we still do training and research for each project. Growing in skill sets as we go.</p>

<p>Talking to other writers and industry professionals helps a huge amount, as many comments here have said. As I&#8217;m pretty new to the commercial film scene I&#8217;ve found out so much from dealing with other professionals.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Eme</title>
		<link>http://johnaugust.com/archives/2008/does-a-working-writer-keep-improving/comment-page-1#comment-130222</link>
		<dc:creator>Eme</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 May 2008 20:32:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnaugust.com/?p=1029#comment-130222</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Another great tool is discussion. This is the kind of thing for which the internet is pretty nifty. It&#039;d be great to have a blog in which the commenters deconstructed one classic film a week. If I had more time I&#039;d start it myself but since I don&#039;t, I&#039;m throwing it out there for anyone else who might like to take it up...&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another great tool is discussion. This is the kind of thing for which the internet is pretty nifty. It&#8217;d be great to have a blog in which the commenters deconstructed one classic film a week. If I had more time I&#8217;d start it myself but since I don&#8217;t, I&#8217;m throwing it out there for anyone else who might like to take it up&#8230;</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Naomi</title>
		<link>http://johnaugust.com/archives/2008/does-a-working-writer-keep-improving/comment-page-1#comment-130182</link>
		<dc:creator>Naomi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 May 2008 15:14:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnaugust.com/?p=1029#comment-130182</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;I also highly recommend Blake&#039;s Save the Cat books. Short, sassy, quick help for plot problems.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I also highly recommend Blake&#8217;s Save the Cat books. Short, sassy, quick help for plot problems.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Mike Rinaldi</title>
		<link>http://johnaugust.com/archives/2008/does-a-working-writer-keep-improving/comment-page-1#comment-130112</link>
		<dc:creator>Mike Rinaldi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 May 2008 08:18:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnaugust.com/?p=1029#comment-130112</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Scott, I highly recommend Blake Snyder&#039;s two Save the Cat books. Blake is a working screenwriter who did exactly what John suggested and deconstructed a ton of movies to see how they work. He also completely rethinks genres and develops ten categories that every story falls into. (For example The Matrix and Monsters Inc. are roughly the same story.) And he shows how these different story genres are structured and how they hit the beats. I find Blake&#039;s approach to structure and genre to be actually very liberating rather than constricting.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Scott, I highly recommend Blake Snyder&#8217;s two Save the Cat books. Blake is a working screenwriter who did exactly what John suggested and deconstructed a ton of movies to see how they work. He also completely rethinks genres and develops ten categories that every story falls into. (For example The Matrix and Monsters Inc. are roughly the same story.) And he shows how these different story genres are structured and how they hit the beats. I find Blake&#8217;s approach to structure and genre to be actually very liberating rather than constricting.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Stephan Vladimir Bugaj</title>
		<link>http://johnaugust.com/archives/2008/does-a-working-writer-keep-improving/comment-page-1#comment-130095</link>
		<dc:creator>Stephan Vladimir Bugaj</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 May 2008 06:43:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnaugust.com/?p=1029#comment-130095</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;UCLA classes are indeed good.  I especially like their (workshop) classes because they&#039;re not overburdened with harping on structural theories.  Even some writers who have sold scripts still take UCLA classes.  An added bonus is you often meet some very nice people, or meet them virtually if you take the on-line classes, which are now done via Skype which is much better than text chatrooms.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;There are lots of people out there with books to sell, theories to uphold at all costs, and axes to grind.  If you take each theory with a grain of salt, rather than as gospel, you can get some useful ideas from them.  I recommend reading so many of them, that you internalize the general similarities and forget all of the &quot;your script absolutely must have a man wearing a hat on page 16 or you will be a colossal failure and die lonely&quot; types of specifics that too many of these books contain.  &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Doing your own analysis, by writing cards, outlines, or similar notes for films that inspire you is even better.  If you can&#039;t even start that without having a theoretical construct to guide you, pick a couple screenplay structure books that look interesting and start there -- but I feel you&#039;ll be doing yourself a disservice if you just pick one theory and apply it at all costs.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>UCLA classes are indeed good.  I especially like their (workshop) classes because they&#8217;re not overburdened with harping on structural theories.  Even some writers who have sold scripts still take UCLA classes.  An added bonus is you often meet some very nice people, or meet them virtually if you take the on-line classes, which are now done via Skype which is much better than text chatrooms.</p>

<p>There are lots of people out there with books to sell, theories to uphold at all costs, and axes to grind.  If you take each theory with a grain of salt, rather than as gospel, you can get some useful ideas from them.  I recommend reading so many of them, that you internalize the general similarities and forget all of the &#8220;your script absolutely must have a man wearing a hat on page 16 or you will be a colossal failure and die lonely&#8221; types of specifics that too many of these books contain.  </p>

<p>Doing your own analysis, by writing cards, outlines, or similar notes for films that inspire you is even better.  If you can&#8217;t even start that without having a theoretical construct to guide you, pick a couple screenplay structure books that look interesting and start there &#8212; but I feel you&#8217;ll be doing yourself a disservice if you just pick one theory and apply it at all costs.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Johnny</title>
		<link>http://johnaugust.com/archives/2008/does-a-working-writer-keep-improving/comment-page-1#comment-130093</link>
		<dc:creator>Johnny</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 May 2008 06:34:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnaugust.com/?p=1029#comment-130093</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Classes, books, podcasts, commentaries... Whatever happened to closing your eyes and watching the movie, then scribbling it all down before memory fails you? Just saying.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Classes, books, podcasts, commentaries&#8230; Whatever happened to closing your eyes and watching the movie, then scribbling it all down before memory fails you? Just saying.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Sean William Menzies</title>
		<link>http://johnaugust.com/archives/2008/does-a-working-writer-keep-improving/comment-page-1#comment-130030</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean William Menzies</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 May 2008 00:10:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnaugust.com/?p=1029#comment-130030</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Very good question, Scott, and a great answer, John. I write a lot but have never had the luck to yet be discovered and sold, so my advice may be worth about as much as one of my dust-covered scripts. But John is absolutely correct in stretching outside your comfort zone; try a subject matter that needs exploring, see how you can handle it with your own specific style. It&#039;s always a good feeling when you&#039;re writing and you get scared because a scene can go several different ways and you&#039;re uncertain which path to take. That fear is what stretches our mental horizons, as the explorers used to say, &quot;Beyond here be dragons.&quot;&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Such are the two pennies I&#039;ve thrown into the hat!&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Very good question, Scott, and a great answer, John. I write a lot but have never had the luck to yet be discovered and sold, so my advice may be worth about as much as one of my dust-covered scripts. But John is absolutely correct in stretching outside your comfort zone; try a subject matter that needs exploring, see how you can handle it with your own specific style. It&#8217;s always a good feeling when you&#8217;re writing and you get scared because a scene can go several different ways and you&#8217;re uncertain which path to take. That fear is what stretches our mental horizons, as the explorers used to say, &#8220;Beyond here be dragons.&#8221;</p>

<p>Such are the two pennies I&#8217;ve thrown into the hat!</p>]]></content:encoded>
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