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	<title>Comments on: On horseshit, and the New York Times</title>
	<atom:link href="http://johnaugust.com/archives/2007/horseshit/feed" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://johnaugust.com/archives/2007/horseshit</link>
	<description>A ton of useful information about screenwriting.</description>
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		<title>By: Cynical</title>
		<link>http://johnaugust.com/archives/2007/horseshit/comment-page-2#comment-117627</link>
		<dc:creator>Cynical</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 11 Jan 2008 01:04:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnaugust.com/archives/2007/horseshit#comment-117627</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;JA,&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Long time fan and not at all a poster but i felt I had to comment on this issue. While your words were unfairly minced for a quote that really doesn&#039;t address what you had said, the whole idea of the vulgarity has existed with the NYT since almost it&#039;s beginning. The Language log (see: http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/005111.html) has covered the topic of the NYT and it&#039;s strange idiotic love affair with what it deems obscenity there. I just wanted to point out that while it is stupid, they have had this weird policy of self-censorship from the beginning. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Of course, I also find it strange that you apply MPAA ratings on what is printed especially when the MPAA ratings themselves are often haphazard in what they censor/rate and how they do this.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JA,</p>

<p>Long time fan and not at all a poster but i felt I had to comment on this issue. While your words were unfairly minced for a quote that really doesn&#8217;t address what you had said, the whole idea of the vulgarity has existed with the NYT since almost it&#8217;s beginning. The Language log (see: <a href="http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/005111.html)" rel="nofollow">http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/005111.html)</a> has covered the topic of the NYT and it&#8217;s strange idiotic love affair with what it deems obscenity there. I just wanted to point out that while it is stupid, they have had this weird policy of self-censorship from the beginning. </p>

<p>Of course, I also find it strange that you apply MPAA ratings on what is printed especially when the MPAA ratings themselves are often haphazard in what they censor/rate and how they do this.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Kiki</title>
		<link>http://johnaugust.com/archives/2007/horseshit/comment-page-2#comment-117493</link>
		<dc:creator>Kiki</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jan 2008 20:28:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnaugust.com/archives/2007/horseshit#comment-117493</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Dominic says: &quot;This is what cutbacks do to a quality newspaper.&quot; And we haven&#039;t seen the worst of it, I&#039;m sure. The educational book publisher I most recently worked for cut our entire proofreading staff (keeping the whole process assigned only to freelancers, and only one pass on each ms. versus the three it used to have). The publisher&#039;s argument was that &quot;costs and meeting the deadline are more important than accuracy.&quot; Quote. For educational books. Now available in your kid&#039;s school library!&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;And everyone, please take a minute to understand what Anonymous #7 says. I had this experience when articles were written about a lawsuit my office was involved with. Was amazed at how skewed the reportage was vis-a-vis the facts. They offered lots of quotes from the defendant and his opposing counsel, but neglected to check court records, documents, and other fact-supporting items that could have proved whatever they said to be lies. So disappointing.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dominic says: &#8220;This is what cutbacks do to a quality newspaper.&#8221; And we haven&#8217;t seen the worst of it, I&#8217;m sure. The educational book publisher I most recently worked for cut our entire proofreading staff (keeping the whole process assigned only to freelancers, and only one pass on each ms. versus the three it used to have). The publisher&#8217;s argument was that &#8220;costs and meeting the deadline are more important than accuracy.&#8221; Quote. For educational books. Now available in your kid&#8217;s school library!</p>

<p>And everyone, please take a minute to understand what Anonymous #7 says. I had this experience when articles were written about a lawsuit my office was involved with. Was amazed at how skewed the reportage was vis-a-vis the facts. They offered lots of quotes from the defendant and his opposing counsel, but neglected to check court records, documents, and other fact-supporting items that could have proved whatever they said to be lies. So disappointing.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Josef</title>
		<link>http://johnaugust.com/archives/2007/horseshit/comment-page-2#comment-117303</link>
		<dc:creator>Josef</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jan 2008 06:46:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnaugust.com/archives/2007/horseshit#comment-117303</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Flog me for getting that wrong.
It is actually cook instead of eat.
Sorry, I was trying to recite a Simpsons quote from memory regarding an episode I haven&#039;t seen in two years.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Flog me for getting that wrong.
It is actually cook instead of eat.
Sorry, I was trying to recite a Simpsons quote from memory regarding an episode I haven&#8217;t seen in two years.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Ix</title>
		<link>http://johnaugust.com/archives/2007/horseshit/comment-page-2#comment-117232</link>
		<dc:creator>Ix</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jan 2008 16:09:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnaugust.com/archives/2007/horseshit#comment-117232</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Yeah, I&#039;ve been interviewed several times and not once have I been quoted correctly, and that&#039;s the times that I&#039;ve actually sat down with the writer. It gets much worse when they don&#039;t even interview you, but just grab something off the net or something someone else wrote about you. I have to say though that even at the worst, they never made it sound like I said something too vile to print.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Outside of that, I fully support the strike and hope that this all clears up soon with you writers getting what you actually deserve. I also hope that people like the one in comment #28 can get a brain and know that they should just stay quiet, since 90some percent of writers definitely aren&#039;t getting paid what they deserve and probably won&#039;t be able to keep writing if something doesn&#039;t improve for them.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, I&#8217;ve been interviewed several times and not once have I been quoted correctly, and that&#8217;s the times that I&#8217;ve actually sat down with the writer. It gets much worse when they don&#8217;t even interview you, but just grab something off the net or something someone else wrote about you. I have to say though that even at the worst, they never made it sound like I said something too vile to print.</p>

<p>Outside of that, I fully support the strike and hope that this all clears up soon with you writers getting what you actually deserve. I also hope that people like the one in comment #28 can get a brain and know that they should just stay quiet, since 90some percent of writers definitely aren&#8217;t getting paid what they deserve and probably won&#8217;t be able to keep writing if something doesn&#8217;t improve for them.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Kurt Yaeger</title>
		<link>http://johnaugust.com/archives/2007/horseshit/comment-page-2#comment-117148</link>
		<dc:creator>Kurt Yaeger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Jan 2008 21:54:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnaugust.com/archives/2007/horseshit#comment-117148</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Horseshit horseshit horseshit. I&#039;m three times more vulgar than you John, naa naa.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Horseshit horseshit horseshit. I&#8217;m three times more vulgar than you John, naa naa.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Brad</title>
		<link>http://johnaugust.com/archives/2007/horseshit/comment-page-2#comment-117043</link>
		<dc:creator>Brad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jan 2008 22:16:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnaugust.com/archives/2007/horseshit#comment-117043</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Josef,
Isn&#039;t it &quot;cook&quot; and not &quot;eat?&quot;  Minor quibble, obviously, but this whole argument was about sloppy reporting.&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Josef,
Isn&#8217;t it &#8220;cook&#8221; and not &#8220;eat?&#8221;  Minor quibble, obviously, but this whole argument was about sloppy reporting.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Scott123</title>
		<link>http://johnaugust.com/archives/2007/horseshit/comment-page-2#comment-117034</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott123</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jan 2008 20:34:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnaugust.com/archives/2007/horseshit#comment-117034</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Screw &#039;em. Like all MSM, they are in it for the money. Truth? Accuracy? Well, that&#039;s nice, but in the end, it&#039;s the money. 
On another note, I have been copying and pasting something around on the net that I want you to read. It is a reply to scabbing.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Dearest Kat,&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;I think you may be missing S&amp;F&#039;s point. I will use myself as an example. I am an amateur screenwriter. I have been sending out query letters for years with no success. Nevertheless, I keep trying. 
That is, until recently. I have not sent out anything since this strike began, because I understand what they are doing.  More to the point, alot of this is happening to protect me! If I stay true and keep trying, the day will come when I get my first-first look option, or flat out deal. When that happens, I will need the protection of the WGA, and all that it represents.
I will not be crossing a picket line even if it means the big break. If I do, (and this is S&amp;F&#039;s point) and I get the gig, then what? This strike will eventually end, and when it does, the people striking are going to remember who crossed that line. When the strikers think of me, I want them to remember that the guy they are fighting for understands what they are doing, really appreciates it, and would like to say thank you. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;nudginawink
Scott123&lt;/p&gt;
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Screw &#8216;em. Like all MSM, they are in it for the money. Truth? Accuracy? Well, that&#8217;s nice, but in the end, it&#8217;s the money. 
On another note, I have been copying and pasting something around on the net that I want you to read. It is a reply to scabbing.</p>

<p>Dearest Kat,</p>

<p>I think you may be missing S&amp;F&#8217;s point. I will use myself as an example. I am an amateur screenwriter. I have been sending out query letters for years with no success. Nevertheless, I keep trying. 
That is, until recently. I have not sent out anything since this strike began, because I understand what they are doing.  More to the point, alot of this is happening to protect me! If I stay true and keep trying, the day will come when I get my first-first look option, or flat out deal. When that happens, I will need the protection of the WGA, and all that it represents.
I will not be crossing a picket line even if it means the big break. If I do, (and this is S&amp;F&#8217;s point) and I get the gig, then what? This strike will eventually end, and when it does, the people striking are going to remember who crossed that line. When the strikers think of me, I want them to remember that the guy they are fighting for understands what they are doing, really appreciates it, and would like to say thank you. </p>

<p>nudginawink
Scott123</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Josef</title>
		<link>http://johnaugust.com/archives/2007/horseshit/comment-page-2#comment-117014</link>
		<dc:creator>Josef</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jan 2008 14:19:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnaugust.com/archives/2007/horseshit#comment-117014</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;How to eat
How to eat humans
How to eat for humans
How to eat forty humans
How to eat for forty humans&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;The Simpsons has a quote for everything.&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Sorry to hear about the out of context quote man.
Normally I love the Times. They are one of the better American newspapers.
You should try and find out how it got through.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How to eat
How to eat humans
How to eat for humans
How to eat forty humans
How to eat for forty humans</p>

<p>The Simpsons has a quote for everything.</p>

<p>Sorry to hear about the out of context quote man.
Normally I love the Times. They are one of the better American newspapers.
You should try and find out how it got through.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Dominic</title>
		<link>http://johnaugust.com/archives/2007/horseshit/comment-page-2#comment-116893</link>
		<dc:creator>Dominic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jan 2008 00:20:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnaugust.com/archives/2007/horseshit#comment-116893</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Scott - The Sydney Morning Herald. That ought to do, right?&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Mr K: I&#039;m sure such words are regarded as vulgarisms by the NYT stylebook. But to take that definition and apply it universally is comment, and has no place in a news report. Well, not in a good newspaper anyhow. &lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;Interestingly the SMH stylebook also regarded such words as vulgar and to be avoided by reporters. It said nothing, however, about reporters applying the SMH standard to all other writers/readers/the universe. The NYT would have been right to report the blog post in full and let readers decide whether it was vulgar or not. To report it as vulgar - simply because it fit the NYT stylebook definition of vulgar - is comment, plain and simple. And comment should never enter a news report.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Scott &#8211; The Sydney Morning Herald. That ought to do, right?</p>

<p>Mr K: I&#8217;m sure such words are regarded as vulgarisms by the NYT stylebook. But to take that definition and apply it universally is comment, and has no place in a news report. Well, not in a good newspaper anyhow. </p>

<p>Interestingly the SMH stylebook also regarded such words as vulgar and to be avoided by reporters. It said nothing, however, about reporters applying the SMH standard to all other writers/readers/the universe. The NYT would have been right to report the blog post in full and let readers decide whether it was vulgar or not. To report it as vulgar &#8211; simply because it fit the NYT stylebook definition of vulgar &#8211; is comment, plain and simple. And comment should never enter a news report.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Scott from Australia</title>
		<link>http://johnaugust.com/archives/2007/horseshit/comment-page-1#comment-116881</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott from Australia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jan 2008 21:36:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnaugust.com/archives/2007/horseshit#comment-116881</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Dominic, what Australian newspaper did you work on? Please dont tell me it was the Daily Telegraph, because they would really lower your credibility.&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dominic, what Australian newspaper did you work on? Please dont tell me it was the Daily Telegraph, because they would really lower your credibility.</p>]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: LippyOne</title>
		<link>http://johnaugust.com/archives/2007/horseshit/comment-page-1#comment-116875</link>
		<dc:creator>LippyOne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jan 2008 19:30:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://johnaugust.com/archives/2007/horseshit#comment-116875</guid>
		<description>&lt;p&gt;Not to distract from how crumby this article is...or at least the misrepresentation of your blog...but the NY Times DOES use the word horseshit from time to time in it&#039;s books section and maybe some other areas...I was able to find it pretty quickly using Google Site Search-- which is almost always better than whatever site search is available on these media sites.  I think the search you probably used was designed to pick up key-words that probably appear in the abstract about the article...&lt;/p&gt;

&lt;p&gt;One example...
http://www.nytimes.com/books/first/q/queenan-lobster.html&lt;/p&gt;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not to distract from how crumby this article is&#8230;or at least the misrepresentation of your blog&#8230;but the NY Times DOES use the word horseshit from time to time in it&#8217;s books section and maybe some other areas&#8230;I was able to find it pretty quickly using Google Site Search&#8211; which is almost always better than whatever site search is available on these media sites.  I think the search you probably used was designed to pick up key-words that probably appear in the abstract about the article&#8230;</p>

<p>One example&#8230;
<a href="http://www.nytimes.com/books/first/q/queenan-lobster.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.nytimes.com/books/first/q/queenan-lobster.html</a></p>]]></content:encoded>
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