Spec, or write it for the producer?
I recently went out to about 10 companies with a comedy pitch. I had some good response, although no sale, as I somewhat expected as a new writer. But it was a great experience to pitch it, meet new people, etc.
One of the producers I pitched to loved the overall concept but had issues with my execution of it. He wants to develop it with me as a script.
On the one hand, I can see the value of having an experienced exec’s insight. Plus he was very excited about the idea and got it on a thematic level.
On the other, I am so sick of developing this idea which I’ve been working on for months and really want to start writing it now. (Even though it didn’t sell, I still think i can execute it well enough to sell.) I’m worried the producer’s ideas for plot changes were pretty major, and I may not agree with all of them. Plus I’d have to cater to his views in order for him to bring it to the studio. My inclination is to just go ahead and spec it, then show it again to him and everyone else. But I’m wondering what you think. I’d hate to pass up a good opportunity.
–KR
Los Angeles, CA
I don’t know the producer, so I can’t speak to his taste. But I think your instincts are right.
Look at it this way: Say you write the script and it still doesn’t sell. At least if you wrote the script the way you wanted, you’d always have something you believed in. But if you wrote it to the producer’s vision and it didn’t sell, you’d be stuck with a script that’s not really what you wanted in the first place.
So I say, spec it and take it to the producer first. If he still wants it his way, you can decide whether it’s worth the work to try it. He may even option it. But whatever happens, you’ll always have your version in the vault.
Articles
July 11th, 2006 at 3:16 pm
I don’t understand why you were pitching your original idea in the first place. You said it was ‘a great experience to pitch it, meet new people, etc.’ That tells us you’re a new writer, who likely hasn’t sold anything, gotten an assignment, or been staffed anywhere. Plus you’re asking a general question on John’s blog, so let’s assume you’re new.
Companies don’t have much interest in hearing original pitches from new writers because you’re an unknown quantity. You might have a good idea, but if you’ve never been in business anywhere, or you have limited experience, then it’s not clear whether you can execute your idea well enough, on time, incorporate notes, etc. So don’t bother pitching your original ideas at this stage in your career. It’s bad strategy, and you’re showing your ignorance (and your agent/manager’s ignorance, by the way). Just write your own ideas on spec until you sell one, or get an assignment.
Once you have a body of work, a reputation, and fans, then you can go pitch your original stuff.
All of this is a long-winded way of saying ‘know your rank’.
As far as whether or not to develop one of your original ideas with a producer, it depends on whether there’s money involved. If you’re doing it for free, then you both have to be on the exact same page creatively. If they’re paying you to write your own idea, then you have to do what they say. You can avoid creative conflicts by writing a detailed treatment and trading that back and forth with the producer before you make a deal. That’s the best way to determine if the two of you are in sync and ready to work together.
If you’re writing for free, also be sure to consider the producer’s caliber in town and the probability that working with him will advance your career. If the producer is a big shot, then it’s probably worth the effort, even if your idea only turns out to be 75 or 80% of what you originally intended.
If the producer is a lower caliber player, and/or if you don’t like their creative input, and you can’t see a clear benefit for yourself, then don’t bother. You have to apply the creative input factor for the big shot producer, too–if the big shot’s ideas are terrible and you’d be embarrassed to put your name on the script he wants you to write, then don’t bother with that either. You don’t want to lay a turd on your first try, if you can avoid it. But try to find something else to work on together, because that’s a valuable relationship. If the big shot likes your writing, he’ll be open to considering other projects with you.
Hope this helps.
July 11th, 2006 at 9:17 pm
Of course, there is the idea. There is also the outline and the character development sheets. And then there is the sitting down to write out the script. And then you notice the weaknesses that inevitably surface in a first draft. And then there is the rewrite. And then there’s another rewrite. And then the story takes on a life of its own.
I’m still waiting for the day that one of my “finished” scripts actually resembles the original idea.
-MM
July 12th, 2006 at 10:35 am
My take? I think John is completely - what else is new
- spot on. I would like to add, that if you write the version you want, if nothing else, you’ll have a quality writing sample. A possibility, of course, is that even after you labor in development with the exec that the script will not sell and then you will also have to still tweak the script in order to send it out there as a legitmate sample of your work (taking into account your reservations about the exec’s creative mind). It seems like the goal should be to get work from this great idea of yours… so, write it for yourself and if you can execute it like you imply, you should be on your way… Good luck.
Scribe
July 12th, 2006 at 2:01 pm
Actually - I’d look at this in a different light. You’ve got your original idea and that’s cool - you could write that later. See if the producer will want to work with you on a new idea (same genre and style maybe) but starting ground up and from zero. That way the producer will get exactly what he wants and you’ve still got your idea. Now can you think of your pitch efforts as paying off exactly right - with a new contact and a new project off the ground.
July 12th, 2006 at 3:44 pm
To Ben:
“know your rank”? Sour grapes Ben? Yes KR is new…your sarcastic analysis was not necessary as KR mentions “newness” right off the bat :” I recently went out to about 10 companies with a comedy pitch. I had some good response, although no sale, as I somewhat expected as a new writer.”.
I agree with John, KR should develop the script.
The responses show that some folks are ticked off that the new writer got to pitch to 10 different parties. Hey, maybe you guys should learn from KR about how to go about getting 10 pitch opportunities?
-Sam
July 13th, 2006 at 8:49 am
BEN:
Whoa, that was way harsh.
I’m not sure what you’ve sold, produced, or worked on but I’m not entirely sure your tone was necessary for such an innocent question.
KR, writing the script is usually the best way to go. Even if your script doesn’t sell, it may lead to assignments, possible representation, or…more meetings. Which is actually a good thing. No meetings tend to feel like death. Good luck and keep writing!
July 13th, 2006 at 9:43 am
I have to go with Kevin on this one. Ben seems a bit angry. The original inquery is actually a very good one. ESPECIALLY for an aspiring writer, who will face that sort of scenario more often than a writer with an agent, manager and lawyers on his side. In my experience if a producer doesn’t want to pay you (even a small amount) it’s a no go. Everyone will be interested in working with you for free. Producers love having material in development. My advice: tell the guy you need to pay rent and need at least a small flat free so you can afford to take the time off to focus on executing his ideas….
July 13th, 2006 at 9:45 am
…I meant to say FEE not FREE, freudian slip.
July 13th, 2006 at 12:41 pm
Kevin A.,
No, my tone wasn’t harsh at all. It was direct and factual. I’m definitely no mogul, but I know how the town works. And I’m not a screenwriter so it wasn’t ’sour grapes’. I just hate to see people employing bad, ignorant strategy.
Don’t worry about my tone. I’m giving you the straight dope. If it sounds harsh, it’s because it’s a harsh business. If KR is doing something wrong, he needs to know about it and correct himself. KR being a new writer and going around pitching his original ideas is wrong. It’s bad strategy, it’s a low to zero percentage play, and it’s likely to leave a bad impression. The fact that he got the meetings in the first place is immaterial. Executives take meetings they don’t want to take ALL DAY to stay in favor with agents and managers.
Here’s the deal. You have to be strategic about how to get into business as a screenwriter. You have to play the percentages, and understanding how the town ‘ranks’ talent, for lack of a better term, is critical. KR shouldn’t bother pitching his original ideas because, as a new, unsold, unproduced writer, the chance of him selling one are somewhere around zero. As evidenced by the fact that he took his pitch out to ten companies and didn’t sell it.
Now, if an exec likes something KR wrote and is open to hearing him pitch for an open assignment, that’s a different story. Or if KR is in a general meeting becase an exec liked something he wrote, and KR mentions the idea he’s planning on writing next, and the exec takes an interest, that’s different story, too.
If KR wants to play the smart percentages, it’s going to be the strength of his material that opens doors for him first. So that’s where he needs to focus all his energy, until he gets to a level where he’s a proven commodity, and execs and studios know what they’re going to get if he pitches an original idea.
So, KR, my advice is the same as John’s and everyone else’s. Specifically, don’t take meetings for the sole purpose of pitching your original stuff. You have to prove your ability at this stage, and that means putting words on pages.
July 13th, 2006 at 1:23 pm
A producer wants to “develop” it with you? Is he paying you? Does he expect to co-own the project based on his valuable notes?
Most producer notes are not very good. Whether they are “major” or not is irrelevant: if they’re good, you should take them. If you disagree with them, then only do them if you’re getting paid to do them. If the producer expects to co-own the project because he gave you notes, forget it.
I think you should write the script. A comedy script is all in the execution. It is very hard to be funny in an outline.
July 13th, 2006 at 3:02 pm
Does Josh Friedman have any air vents in his place? Do you think he might be stuck in one?
July 13th, 2006 at 5:24 pm
I think it should depend on what your priority is…
If you prefer to have a good, finished, your very own script in your drawer (which brings great satisfaction to every writer), say “good bye” to the producer and finish it for yourself.
If you prefer having your name on a completed movie which is actually coming to a cinema near you (which brings great satisfaction to every writer, but also something to buy the groceries with), take his notes, write it his way, take the money and run. If nothing else, at least you have a recommendation - “He was already produced” - which would probably mean more creative freedom on your next project.
Not that I have any experience in these things, so , please, don’t listen to me…
July 13th, 2006 at 6:56 pm
I’m no expert but for what I’ve seen about this biz is that you have to get your foot in the door with your first project. If that means “collaborating” with a producer, then fine, do it. IF, and that is a BIG IF, the producer is good and has connections with studios, and the project is attractive and doable, then go for it. Get the movie made, even if it isn’t your original vision. Then you can do what ever you want. You’ll have “story” credits and you’ll get your residuals (if the movie is any good). And you can say you truly have a Hollywood career.
PS
Even if you do write the perfect script, and you sell it, they [producer, studio, etc.] will probably hire more writers to “fix it.” The finished movie will most likely be unrecognizable to you. Maybe they’ll keep the name of your main character and the title of the script. Everything else will probably change. So, being the “devil’s advocate,” why write when you can sell your concepts and still get credit? If you can pitch your ideas directly and be successful at it, then do it. Or you can write screenplays, which take months and even years to do, and not sell them. It’s up to you. (”Bird in the hand…”)
July 14th, 2006 at 8:48 am
Further to the question of whether or not you should write/develop a project for free with a producer, if you’re a new writer, unsold, unproduced and unheralded, you should consider it. It’s a smart move. Here’s why:
When you’re on the outside trying to break in, you’re going to be writing specs anyway. All things being equal, why not write something that someone will soldier for you? You’re working for free, so the project should belong to you. If the producer wants to stay permanently attached for having developed it with you, that’s fair, too, and you can make an attachment agreement that reflects this arrangement. If you want other conditions, put them in the agreement.
If you’re concerned about spending too much time on the project, just set limits for how many drafts you’re going to do. No one’s asking you to let yourself be taken advantage of. The producer will want it to be a mutually beneficial relationship–he gets to develop a script for free; you get a producer who will shop the project, and get you an agent/manager, and the experience of having developed a project in a real setting.
That’s a fair deal. So to all the new screenwriters, don’t automatically turn up your nose when a producer asks to develop a project for free with you. It’s a means to an end. Take advantage of the opportunity and make an arrangement that serves both your interests.
Think of it this way–as an ‘aspiring’ screenwriter, your actual objective isn’t ‘to get paid to write screenplays’. Your true objective is ‘TO GET INTO POSITION to get paid to write screenplays’.
July 14th, 2006 at 9:46 am
I’ve been in this position before and my advice would be just to spec it out on your own. If you limit yourself to one producer, you are limiting your exposure. No other production companies will read your script — at least in a timely fashion — if there isn’t the chance they can produce it themselves. You want as many people as possible to read your script — you may or may not sell the thing, but if it’s good it will open some doors.
July 16th, 2006 at 5:43 pm
Kyle,
No, that’s incorrect.
The producer for whom you write the script will send it to all the buyers–that should be part of the agreement you (the writer) make with the producer–that once it’s ready, the producer takes it out to buyers as wide as possible.
The buyers/studios/financiers are the ones writing the checks. They’re the ones you really want to read your stuff because if they love it, they’re the ones who will call you back in when they have open assignments to fill. Producers have open assignments to fill, too, but the buyers are the nerve centers, so you wanna get your name on those STUDIO lists, where there’s more traffic and more actual live opportunity. That’s your object.
If it’s your idea and the producer has bad notes, or wants to take the idea in a direction you don’t believe in, then yes, you should just write it on spec yourself. You also should not write the producer’s idea unless you love it, it inspires you, and you know you can do a great job on it. If the idea is beyond or beneath you, stay away.
But if you and a producer both love an idea, yours or his, and you’re both creatively congruent on it, and the producer promises to get it out to every possible buyer, then do it.
July 16th, 2006 at 5:49 pm
Further to the above post, yes, the producer could eventually decide he doesn’t like the project any more and renege on his promise to send it out to buyers. But that’s Hollywood. All you can do is make the best agreement you can make in advance, do everything you can hold your end up, and keep an eye on the producer to make sure he does the same. But generally you get a sense if the project isn’t going well before you get to the end, at which point you can bail out.
July 17th, 2006 at 8:58 am
I base everything on personal experience. I developed a script with a production company. They took it to every buyer, it was well received, but it didn’t sell. Big deal — most specs don’t sell. But what was so depressing was what happened afterwards. The producer didn’t give a shit about it anymore but also wouldn’t let me have it back for TWO YEARS. In that time, no other production company would read it because there was already a producer attached. Finally, I got the script back and tons of other production companies read it — not only did it eventally sell but it also got me a rewrite.
I’ve gone out with several specs. Only once with a producer attached (the aforementioned example). And every time the end result has been better. Everybody in town reads your script and immediately. Even if it doesn’t sell, that’s more people who may like it and might even want to hire you for something else.
And let’s not forget that most producers — even the bigger ones — have a special relationship (or deal) with one studio. Once their home studio passes, it often becomes more difficult for them to sell the script.
I’ve always felt — and my personal experience has done nothing but strengthen this belief — that the more producers fighting over your script, screaming at your agent to let them take into a studio, the better.
Again, it’s all based on personal experience. If you do decide to develop a spec with one producer, I would definitely make sure you get something in writing that says the producer will have no claim on your script (if it doesn’t sell) after… I don’t know, six months or so.
But good luck getting that.
July 27th, 2006 at 12:10 am
I was in the same situation last year and ended up spending 6 months developing a treatment for some producers. After writing 2 drafts a week (while working a fultime day job) addressing all the story notes the producers threw at me– the story got further and further from what drew me too it. After a while I got burned out on the producers, the idea, and writing (at least for a while.) Now I’m of the opinion that a writer shouldn’t write for a producer unless there’s good money– or the producer is established enough to make what very well could be a “learning experience” worth it.
July 30th, 2006 at 1:26 am
I’ve been through that same situation dozens of times. On the one hand it’s beneficial to play the field of producers. You have to learn how the different types operate. The wannabes, the pros, and the honest hard-working aspiring producers.
It’s also a good test of your own willingness to make sacrifices for your career. Including butchering a story idea just to get a produced credit or sale. But then again you don’t want to get jaded by writing shit for too many jackasses. Seeing as every sucka in town thinks they know how to develop a story. Remember being a talented producer/development exec is just as rare as being a good writer.
So trust your instincts most of the time. But don’t be afraid to learn things the hard way. If you have to write…fuck it, the story will out.
July 30th, 2006 at 7:07 pm
One more thing, by the time the script is deliverable, that particular producer may not even be employed any longer.
September 6th, 2007 at 1:46 pm
Writing for someone else’s vision instead of your own will burn you out, especially after you’ve signed a contract with a handsy producer and cash has changed hands. While it is good to get that experience of collaborating you will also have to write, rewrite and re-rewrite for that producer’s ever changing vision. The beauty of an original spec is that if you find someone who loves it as much as you do they will champion it to the end. But once you share the development you give up that freedom that comes from being 100% in control of the universe you are creating. Writing with a producer is like being a contractor; you’re doing the work on the house and the producer is going to show up everyday with new blueprints based on what’s hot in the marketplace. Writing on your own lets you build that little house, then find out who will fall in love with it. If the story is your baby you are better off writing it and sending it out to the better contests. You can always tell the writers that are of one beautiful vision and the ones that have that cobbled together feel of too many conflicting ideas.