Writers Boot Camp
Have you had any experience with Writers Boot Camp? If you have, would you recommend it for a first time screenwriter?
–Cayrn Rose
I don’t have any first-hand experience with it. After visiting the website, it looks like an intensive course designed to get writers through the first draft. I say, if it helps you get your script written, great. I’d liken it to one of those upscale spa retreats where you pay a lot of money to eat grapefruit. Sure, you could do it yourself for less — but would you? Sometimes, paying money is good motivation for taking something seriously.
That said, I’m always leery of Patented Screenplay Secrets and script gurus (self included). There’s no magic, no shortcuts, no perfect second-act template. Most of the screenwriters working in Hollywood learned their craft through trial and error, along with massive rewriting. Workshops often bill themselves as helping writers avoid the painful mistakes, but sometimes what you really need are the painful mistakes.
If any readers out there have experience with Writers Boot Camp or other workshops, please write in.
July 15th, 2004 at 3:44 pm
I’ve been to Writer’s Boot Camp and think its a great program for the same reason as John: it helps you get through your first draft. My instructor was very helpful (and paying money was a great motivator). The course is not a “miracle cure” but the skills I learned I still use today and a well-paid writer friend of mine STILL goes on a occasion to sharpen his tools. The one caution I would tell you about WBC is not to put too much stock in their claimthat they will hook you up with an agent if they like your script. I think they use that to lure students in, but just take the course to write. Also, they have several other classes they try to enlist you in because they “see promise” in your writing (THINK TANK and other programs) but they’re too expensive and you’d be better off taking the regular Bootcamp on your next script.
May 11th, 2005 at 4:24 pm
i did their 6 week course and i really liked how they focused on the process of writing, and not on any specific formula. basic things like starting with a good concept, a good logline, and then slowly expanding from there into sequences, etc.
June 30th, 2005 at 1:04 pm
I have also attended Writers Boot Camp. I have very mixed feelings about it. Many students there are disappointed. WBC uses hard-sell techniques to get you in the door, has an unrelenting refund policy (which is a telling indicator, I think), and does not live up to its claims. In an effort to be brief, I think I’ll just try to list five pros and cons, rather than go into a whole treatise, which could take pages. PROS 1. Uses a whole-script approach. Many programs only get you through the setup. 2. Is long-term and intensive. (I’m talking about the 22-month Think Tank program.) Many classes are only a semester or less. 3. Does have some concepts you will not learn anywhere else (I’m thinking of their “conceit” concept.) 4. Well, that’s all the pros I could come up with.
CONS 1. Was founded and created by someone who is not a writer, but who wanted to be a producer–and therefore does not really know what it’s like to be a writer or to write a script and is more interested in concepts than writing. 2. Does not give you a screenwriting vocabulary you can use in the real world. Even though they use the term “Premise Line,” the way they have you write one creates convoluted, unclear sentences that you must never, never show to anyone outside WBC lest they think you can’t write! I think this is particularly dangerous to beginning screenwriters. 3. Has odd “tools” that exist really so that the teachers and class can talk about your script without actually ever reading your script. 4. Claims not to teach formula but really does, and it’s not even a usable formula. X must happen by page 30, Y by page 60, and Z by page 90, but not even in like the McKee or Syd Field sense. 5. Is not academic enough. Does not spend enough time reading and analyzing real scripts and movies; or even student scripts. Everything is treated in a very cursory fashion. Does not give enough instruction about writing actual pages, but focuses instead on its weird tools. 6. Is too expensive, and in my opinion, not worth the price.
August 5th, 2005 at 5:13 am
Dear Readers, I am currently in my 12th month of the 22 month Think Tank. I’ve read most of the books out there on screen/sitcom writing and have taken courses both online and at NYU. Writers Boot Camp is my “MFA/Graduate program” I have already been taught so many useful tools to help brainstorm, structure, write AND re-write. They DO NOT “lock you” into a specific structure. They only ask you to question and have a relevant answer to why your inciting incident that usually starts the second act adventure comes at page 90, three quarters or more into your screenplay. If it works for your film, they will encourage that. If you look at the majority of films they all have the same basic structure. Their tools really assist you from the ground up to make sure you have a concept that works first before spinning your wheels in all directions that many would-be writers do. Writers Boot Camp is for aspiring Professionals and they teach and assist to get you there. On their website, there are many working Professionals who have studied and advanced their craft at WBC. They give their accounts; read them. Take my advice, if you are serious and want to further your goal of writing for the industry, WBC will be a huge step-up for you. ps. I was never strong-armed into this program. I thought it was the right thing at the right time BUT fate intervened. I had a personal situation that I had to deal with. I was able to take a hiatus and my decision was supported by the WBC. They have a great bunch of enthusiastic instructors and staff who are there for YOU. Really!
August 5th, 2005 at 7:39 am
In the good old days of manual typewriters, the basic internship for a screenwriter was getting locked in a bungalow on the studio lot, having someone collect your pages every day, and having the bottles cleaned out every so often. We don’t exactly have that in the spec world. If you can take the “101 Habits of Successful Screenwriters� and immediately and consistently apply them, you don’t need much outside support.
I’ve known Writer’s Boot Camp founder Jeff Gordon for over ten years, and attended Boot Camp and Think Tank in the 90’s. And I came back into a Think Tank group recently for one reason – unlike many other options for screenwriting instruction you actually get drafts done. Most people generally walk out of a Think Tank stretch with at least one well-rewritten script, a draft or two of another, or a couple of TV specs, a thought-out inventory of commercial new projects to work on, a framework for work habits, and a pretty powerful use-what-you-like tool-box for development. I’ve never seen people be more productive in terms of ‘paying their dues’ than in a WBC Think Tank.
While the multi-year Think Tank occasionally resembles a Weight Watchers for screenwriters – show up every session, weigh in, listen to people discuss their progress, share useful recipes, applaud successes – the 6 week Boot Camp program is like Outward Bound. Say what you will, their system locks you in the bungalow and collects your pages. If you’ve never written a screenplay – let alone one structured and reasonably thought out – Boot Camp will get it out of you. If you decide you need a supportive framework to learn rewriting and development skills, Think Tank follows up.
What doesn’t Boot Camp/Think Tank give you? It’s not film school so you have to learn production and cinema history on your own. There’s not a lot of time to study genres or break down the classics, so you have to do your own homework there. And they don’t refer to any other books or theories, so you have to do your own reading and see how it fits your needs. But you can do that, right?
Boot Camp doesn’t separate you from your family, take a cut of your future income, sell red string, or serve Kool-Aid. Expensive? 2-year Think Tank, near as I can figure, is something like an eighth the investment of a top Screenwriting MFA. OK, it’s 10:30am in NY. Writing time.
August 5th, 2005 at 10:42 am
So if I understand this right, it’s basically only beneficial for writer’s who haven’t written anything yet or who have tried and can’t seem to get it quite right. For people who’ve written several already and have their processes down, it won’t really help that much. Is that a correct assessment?
August 5th, 2005 at 11:28 am
I’d say if you have your processes down and you’re happy with your productivity, and your stuff satisfies you, and you’re getting the marketplace response you want - you certainly have less of a need. However there are many pros and folks who have a trunk full of scripts who are enthusiastic about the tools and environment and come back for refreshers and support. Boot Camp/Think Tank is certainly not only beginner’s level. Tools they teach are useful for rewrites and development of even the scripts you think are done. The system of tools is particularly advanced and there’s no such thing as a ‘beginning’ tool.
Jeff Gordon has taken to calling the extended Think Tank a “membership,” which speaks to the flavor of the long term environment as a writers’ group with shared vocabulary and career development goals. Though I’m sure there are exceptions, I suspect many writers who consider themselves intermediate and even advanced would be thrilled with the discipline and organization of even the 6 week course. The only way to get the immersion is to do a short course - almost nobody is sorry they did. Or find someone you trust who’s been through one, and let them walk you through their experience.
September 26th, 2005 at 12:02 am
I went to WBC and I found it a complete waste of money and time. You can get the same education, or better, simply by buying “Screenwriting for Dummies.” It seems like the school was evasive when it came to many questions, unclear about their tools, 90% of my class were confused about the fancy names the WBC came up with that are current and basic in other classes and teaching tools.
I would recommend buying a few books on screen writing, The “Dummies” book is best write your script and then give it to others to read and comment, and perhaps pay a few script analyzers to review and give professional comments. WBC is not worth the money or time.
February 20th, 2006 at 1:19 pm
PROS Paying thousands of dollars certainly has a way of making you take your writing more seriously. WBC will guarantee you that.
CONS Save your money. If you need to be in a classroom environment, then find a workshop offered at UCLA or one of your local universities. The instructors at WBC are just a group of hacks that most people have never heard of, industry wise, with no list of recognized writing accomplishments and honors to show for themselves. They all claim to be writers, but never bring their own writing to use as a sample, just to at least show they can walk the walk. A university workshop will at least give you the chance to work with a credited writer, with a proven track record of industry success. More often than not, the classrooms at WBC are simply a theraputic soapbox for these people, who often forget that the writers are paying good money to be there. WBC is more like a last option for writers who can’t get paid to write, therefore become instructors at WBC. You can find better things to do with your money.
And P. S., never take their advice to heart, especially when it’s discouraging, because like I said, their track record speaks for itself. And many of the successful alumni on their site are people who already had their own contacts or were already working and established in the industry. Just read the interviews.
A.
February 24th, 2006 at 3:01 am
I’m a little more than half way through the program. I am extremely pleased. I had written three scripts prior to starting the program. I had read everything there was to read on screenwriting, but I hadn’t sold any scripts yet. The program has helped me to identify and shore up blind spots in my understanding of structure. Additionally, I benefit mightily from the ability to check in on a weekly basis with my instructor to share my progress and have her review pages of the script or different excercises from class. I would not say that the class is just for beginners. It works well for intermediates and even advanced. I do think it is important to have a good instructor. The folks at WBC don’t necessarily agree with me, but that’s my opinion. They’re cool about switching teachers.
I don’t agree that their “unrelenting refund policy” indicates the (lack of) quality of the program. There are a bunch of classmates who haven’t done any writing and I’m 55% of the way through the program. At that point, I could imagine some of them wanting a refund, but why should WBC cough up money when the students were the ones that didn’t follow through with their commitment.
One con. One of the three teachers I had didn’t really honor his office hours. It was a pain in the *(& to get him on the phone. When I did, however, his advice was incredibly insightful. I would enthusiastically recommend the program.
February 25th, 2006 at 8:52 am
I’m in second go around with WBC online. Their money policy was very generous with me. I did their online course last summer, was planning to attend their immersion program in January and got sick so I couldn’t go. They transferred money to the upcoming course in June and put me in to an online program for free this winter. Their tools are jargony, but valuable. They are like anything else, you have to adapt them to your style and needs. The basic problem I’ve seen is that two of my “support” people quit and I didn’t know it. The discipline and structure is the basic thing I need and the ability to get real work done is why I joined.
April 2nd, 2006 at 10:34 am
I just met with WBC and took a tour, been comparing them to UCLA, I’m in sales myself and nobody was pressuring me to take the classes or forcing anything on me on the phone or in class, they simply answered my questions and they seemed professional and well mannered. Not sure yet what the right answer is for me but I like the disciplined structure of their program, and it seems like they give more individual attention than UCLA. I have read all the books too and have been writing on my own. I just don’t think you become an accomplished writer by reading a book. All my “working” writer friends say “take classes, take classes, write, write, write.” What I do know about WBC is it forces you to write and set up a writing routine so you can’t help but grow. I have read the books too, but it just seems like there is more potential for growth in support, groups, evaluation and classes. Just like acting, writing is a craft, and any kind of further education doesn’t seem like a bad thing. I like what both programs are offering. It’s nice to be in LA and have a choice.
April 28th, 2006 at 11:49 am
I am thankfully finishing my two year stint in “Think Tank” at WBC, and trufthfully, I have been highly disappointed with the program. It was sold to me as a “professional level” writing course, comparable to an MFA in screenwriting at any of the top, accredited schools. I have worked in this industry for over ten years, am currently a producer in network television, and have been flabbergasted by WBC’s definition of “professional.”
Having entered the program to further cultivate my writing skills and to give myself the ever-needed “deadline,” I looked forward to meeting up-and-coming intellectuals and marinating in a proverbial pot of creative froth. Instead, I sit in class with people who are indeed sweet, but ultimately clueless about the industry and even — writing itself. People ask asinine questions about how they can become famous A-list screenwriters, and not how they can improve their craft. I don’t work a long day and spend my extra time, engergy and money to sit in a room and hear someone who just moved to town innocently query, “how do I get an agent?”
Logistically speaking, the classes are bigger than they promised and it is a terribly expensive program for something you could learn from a $50 book and a dedication to reading well-written, produced screenplays. I believe Jeff Gordon to be a little off his rocker, and the condescending way he speaks to people and the manner in which he refers to himself leads me to believe he is on a serious power trip.
On a more positive note - I do believe there are some interesting tools which one can learn at WBC and I don’t think it’s a bad idea to take one of the introductory 8-week courses if you are a fairly inexperienced screenwriter. Just don’t drink the Kool Aid.
July 18th, 2006 at 2:09 pm
What are the prices of the online classes?
July 26th, 2006 at 7:39 am
Okay, I talked with a a sales rep at Writers Boot Camp. In all fairness to WBC, I will not reveal the price. It is pricey, but it’s nowhere even close to what you might expect to pay for the equivalent class time at UCLA. I will say that I believe WBC makes sense for me. I’m planning to join the 22 month online professional program (aka think tank).
Was my sales rep pushy? No, not at all. He explained everything in a thorough and engaging manner. He asked me alot of questions about my writing goals, story preferences, etc. We even talked about the industry quite a bit.
Is this course perfect for everyone know. No. But it is what you make of it. My sales rep did not make any guarantees or describe the WBC tools as the silver bullet. Rather, he compared the WBC tools to a methodolgy. I can relate to that. Methodology is good, as long as it doesn’t choke and restrict creativity. The WBC tools clearly encourage and foster creativity to the max.
I think this is the perfect course for beginners who can afford it and who are absolutely serious about screenwriting. BTW, the 22 month program is only one option. You can sign up for six month projects in quanties of 2, 3, and 4. Each project is designed to produce a screenplay - first draft or better.
If you’re an established screenwriter, I can see the pros and cons of joining and getting you’re money’s worth. But if you’re not, the course can make great sense.
August 13th, 2006 at 10:20 pm
I have been part of WBC for a while now, more specifically the Think Tank program, and I am disappointed with the course. There are many things that are contradictory about the program, like when they say that it is not formulaic, but if you deviate from their structure they pull you back and tell you to follow their guidelines or “tools” as they are called in the program. One thing that is particularly disturbing about it is how the information is controlled since all the material that is used in the program is developed by the creator, no books or other sources outside of that. There is no real in class movie analysis which I consider of paramount importance in s screenwriter’s development process. When confronted with this their reply is “This is not film school, it’s Writers Boot Camp” But aren’t we trying to write movies here? Every other screenwriting course I have taken included at the very least in class scene analysis of relevant films.
The instructors and advisers in the program are so convinced that the program is the “end all, be all� in screenwriting that if you have reservations about the program they will ask you what are YOU doing that the program is not working for you.
Their “no refund policy” is the biggest Red Flag and one I should have paid more attention to. How much confidence can they have in their own product that they refuse to have any kind of refund policy? Just consider this, try to find a product or any store in the market today that does not have some sort of refund policy. Most of them do and the ones that don’t you try to stay away from. You either like it or you don’t and if you don’t, well, thanks for your money.
You will not learn anything that you can’t from well known screenwriting books and from watching films, mostly films that are relevant to the genre and style that you want to write. In writing you have to be free and develop your own process and understand the things that work and the ones that don’t and you will as you keep working on it.
My advice: take courses at accredited colleges with instructors who actually have industry experience or credits and have refund policies in case anything happens. Buy books and watch film, ask yourself why they work. I agree with A. above, don’t drink the Kool Aid. It’s too expensive and it’s not even that sweet.
September 20th, 2006 at 6:25 am
I agree. What potential students should know is that (1) should you decide that the classes are not for you, or that the instructor’s experience and work ethic does not warrant paying THOUSANDS of dollars, sorry, you CAN NOT change your mind and get a refund.
Other programs, such as the UCLA Extension, SCRIPTFORSALE.COM, TVWRITER.COM, etc. are much, much cheaper, and taught by instructors whose work has actually been SEEN by their students.
Any time a writing instructor will not let his or her own writing be seen by their students, that is a red flag. For what you are being asked to pay, and the fact that you are DENIED the right to change your mind about the program, it’s only fair that the instructors show their work. On a good note, I will say that if you get an instructor who seems to be jaded and overly cynical, you might be allowed to switch instructors.
There are other good things about the program. You will interact with other writers and have a chance to receive notes and feedback on your work. The classes are only held twice a month, but many of the students join or form their own writing groups outside of class. The complaints I’ve heard are usually centered on the instructors, but not on other students. What I’ve noticed is that, if you come across as a “hobbyist”, you will get along fine, but if you come across as someone who is persistent, serious and determined to make a career out of your writing, the instructor had a tendency to get annoyed and that’s where the cynicism and subtle put-downs would come in.
Bottom line, (1) know that you WILL NOT be able to change your mind, once you go into the program, (2) whether or not you feel the classes are worth your while, you ARE going to pay THOUSANDS of dollars regardless, (3) chances are, you will NOT get to see your instructor’s own work, and (4) chances are, you will be stuck with an instructor who might be ok at times, but is jaded and often cynical.
September 22nd, 2006 at 7:03 pm
Having taken Think Tank, I can tell you that the instructor quality varies widely at WBC. And as stated above, the tools can be more jargon-y than useful.
I have several friends who were extremely disappointed in their experience in Think Tank. I’d give it a B, myself — with the caveat that the high cost was not an issue for me.
If money IS an issue, there are better ways to learn screenwriting.
October 2nd, 2006 at 9:02 am
I have a Master’s of Professional Writing degree from USC (specializing in screenwriting), have taken screenwriting classes at UCLA Extension, read all the “top” screenwriting books, AND done all of the WBC classes (except immersion). I learned a lot in every class I took, had oscar winning screenwriting instructors at USC, and have written a lot of screenplays (one of which has been produced).
Even though WBC isn’t perfect - I do agree with many of the criticisms mentioned by people above - it DID get me writing in a disciplined way. At USC and UCLA you don’t necessarily walk out the door at the end of the semester/quarter with a finished draft. At WBC - if you follow the program - you do, and that’s saying a LOT!
And even now, many years later, I still pull out my original WBC Bootcamp manual when starting a new script and I follow their introductory methodology to get things rolling again in an organized, well-thought-out direction.
Sorry to say, I do agree with their refund policy. They’re a tough program and they ask you to commit to a minimum number of writing hours per week. Some people enter that commitment rather lightly, don’t do the work, then want a refund. That’s not WBC’s problem - it’s the writer’s problem. They’re actually doing many people a favor by not letting them bail at the slightest excuse. (And they do know the difference between a “good reason” to modify your working agreement and a “writer’s excuse.”) They’re, in effect, saying, “NO EXCUSES - now get back to work!” They call it Bootcamp for a reason and it works.
BTW - if you’ve known any writers at all, or been one yourself for very long, you’ll know how devious the writer’s mind can be in generating excuses not to write. Some writers even go so far as to blame their courses, their instructors, the “faulty” methodology, the apparent lack of compentence of thier fellow students, etc.. Let them prattle on. But if YOU want to be a writer (instead of an aspiring writer with a ton of excuses) I HIGHLY recommend WBC. I’ll be in Bootcamp again for a refresher next month (my fourth time around in the past 11 years). Maybe I’ll see you there!
Take care!
October 5th, 2006 at 6:16 am
The entry above sounds like it comes from an employee of the program more than anything.
October 23rd, 2006 at 8:16 pm
Follow up to Entry 15 above. I’m 9 weeks into the WBC think tank, and about 5 weeks away from my first draft. So far I’ve been extremely pleased with the material, my instructor, and my WBC experience. Tough yes, rewarding ABSOLUTELY YES!!!
Based on the comments above, I must confess - WBC is not for everyone. In my mind, WBC is more about focus and discipline on a structured screenwriting process. It’s definitely not a Screenwriting 101 class.
Truth be told, there’s a lot of jargon. But the jargon is designed to convey concepts and foster that structured approach. Not to be used in a pitch meeting. That’s okay with me. The jargon gives me the big picture, and that’s what I’m looking for.
To me, what’s most refreshing are the WBC “tools” which definitely aid the screenwriter to create work with a wealth of entertaining character moments and fewer plot holes and inconsistencies.
Well, that all for now. As I wrap up my next assignment tonight, the latest “tool” I’m using has revealed an important aspect of my story which I can exploit to make it even more entertaining. That’s nice. Less revision later on.
BTW, I’m not an employee or have any affiliation with WBC.
Good Writing to All!
December 6th, 2006 at 12:44 pm
WBC / THINK TANK UPDATE:
On November 11/27, I mailed my first draft to WBC.
On December 12/5, I had my Story Conference which went very well. The person I talked to gave me expert advice and has the Hollywood credentials to back it up. She gave me both the pro’s and con’s of my work … as in what to keep and what to reconsider. No sugar-coating here. And she provided very specific examples from my script of every topic we covered.
Overall my script was a solid first draft. A good high concept story. Interesting characters. Nice setup events. Unique dialogue. WARNING: A CLICHE FOLLOWS: But screenwriting is rewriting. I know I have to work out quite a few kinks to get it perfect. Perfection is the key. Or at least something very, very close to perfection.
After our meeting, I started the rewrite phase. Again, because of the structured WBC tools, my rewrite steps are very clearly laid out. Little guess work in terms of how to proceed. My final draft is due in about 3 months.
Until next time, good writing to all !!!
December 21st, 2006 at 9:35 pm
WBC / THINK TANK UPDATE:
It’s now December 21st, and a little over 3 weeks after my story conference, my rewrite process is well underway. It’s a structured process that when used properly teaches you to analyze your own story with critically objective eyes to take it to the next of ??? levels.
In the past 3 weeks, I’ve been learning a great deal about my story and about my writing voice through revelations, subtle realizations, and tricks of the trade. It helps to have some concept of screenwriting before starting WBC.
In a little over two months, my final draft will be due. I’m very excited to say the least. In this time, I’ll take my screenplay through 3 - 4 full revisions. The nice thing is that the revisions are planned out through the WBC tools. You don’t jump into the revision process blindly. You jump into it armed with a wealth of new knowledge about your story, characters, and all that “magical stuff” that makes for a memorable story. And isn’t that what it’s all about.
On that note, have a magical holiday! And good writing to all!!
Tom
January 22nd, 2007 at 12:18 pm
I am half way through the Think Tank program (total of 22 months). I have very mixed feelings about the program.
With every pro I can think of, comes a resounding con. Here goes:
PRO: You do write
CON: Often it is only to meet their deadline. Most of the time is spent on the tools of the program and getting the tools right, regardless of whether you have a good idea to begin with. This is my basic difficulty with the program. There is little to no feedback about your ideas. Only about the tools.
PRO: You do write
CON: At the end of this journey, I fear that I will basically have 3-4 drafts of screenplays that basically totally need to be rewritten. This goes for scripts that I have supposedly already rewritten according to their methodology. For me, the process just moves to quickly. I don’t have enough time to assess what I am writing. The program is just about getting stuff down and turning it in. For some that might work. For me I am doubtful about how helpful that is.
PRO: You do write
CON: You learn very little about structure — except what follows their methodology. You never read other scripts, look at films, discuss other films, or ever see samples of any of the tools they sell. You will never see an instructor’s sample of writing. You will never know anything about your instructor - period. The instructor never veers from the WBC methodology including in any feedback he/she will give you about anything you write.
That’s how I feel at the moment. It is expensive, but not more than other schools. The teachers are very very limited in their knowledge. Their structure does get you to write. But at this point, I believe it is about quantity not quality.
For those in New York — beware. The meeting places for classrooms here has been awful. Tiny spaces, dimly lit. Hardly where you would think you would end up after spending $7000. It is not at all like LA. The program is VERY LA centric.
January 30th, 2007 at 12:52 pm
WBC / THINK TANK UPDATE:
I’ll compare and contrast my experiences with NYC Writer’s pro’s and con’s:
PRO: You do write. I agree wholeheartedly. It’s a very intense course for those who are serious about improving their craft. The reason for this intensive schedule is to help screenwriters develop a disciplined approach to writing. Some A List screenwriters work 12+ hours a day, 7 days a week.
CON 1) For WBC first timers, learning the tools is important. I had a different experience with my instructor. Over the past few month’s, we’ve talked at length about my idea, evaluated what works and what doesn’t about it, and compared it to other movies. All with the purpose of making sure my idea was unique from the starting point.
CON 2) True! You are moving at a breakneck speed. I can relate to NYC Wrter’s pain here. Here’s how I put things into perspective. Professional screenwriters provide a service. They write, rewrite, rewrite, and rewrite. Five drafts, ten drafts, fifteen drafts … whatever it takes. I know a screenwriter who isn’t satisfied until he’s on draft # 12. When I finish my screenplay with WBC, I’ll have a respectable draft # 2, but not the final product … far from it. I’ll continue to revise it, send it out for analysis, and rewrite it. I wish I could have a finished draft in 6 months. Hey, that’s why I enrolled with WBC.
NYC Writer: After you finish your first project, you can use your second project to work on the same script. And when you start your second project, you have some leeway to tailor the toolset. It’s not set in stone. WBC just wants you to learn the tools first, then decide what works for you and what doesn’t. If you choose to do this, you should be able to throttle back to sub-lightspeed.
CON 3) NYC Writer is basically right about learning things the WBC way. Think of it as learning a specific perspective on screenwriting — a methodology. Syd Field teaches his perspective, Truby teaches his, so on and so forth. I find the WBC pespective enlightening. I knew from the start this would not be a course in studying screenplays or films. I’ve gone outside the toolset for my own benefit. WBC never discouraged that. I’ve made two specific comments on how to improve the course. My instructor is well versed in film and screenwriting conventions. I can’t comment on the meeting places in NYC. I’m completely online.
My only minor CON is that WBC states you should be able to complete the course putting in 10 hours a week. In my opinion, this is an optimistic number. A more realistic number is 15 hours during regular course work, and 20 hours a week during crunch time to complete your screenplay. Those are my numbers. That said, I was amazed at how quickly I wrote my first draft once I had my tools developed. Just keep in mind, 10 hours a week assumes you’re intensely focused during those 10 hours with no distractions. I have kids - 5 and 3 years old. How often does that happen?
One Final Note: Once I’m finished with my current screenplay with WBC, I’ll send it out for analysis. Based on that feedback, I’ll make the necessary changes and submit it to 2 - 3 screenwriting compettions. That will be my first benchmark.
All in All, I hope this sheds some light on the WBC experience - the pros and the cons.
Until next time …
February 13th, 2007 at 10:10 am
It’s very easy to have your ideas stolen, the way they have the structure set up. They encourage you to post your outlines, loglines, and project notes online so the other writers can view it. The instructors and staff can also view it. I think this is not a good idea, since the instructors I’ve learned are desperately trying to make their “big break” just like us writers who pay $8,000+ for their limited guidance. That $7,000 figure someone posted before is news to me.
On the instructors’ guidance, keep in mind they will NEVER tell you everything they know, or what mistakes they catch in your work, like typos, incorrect format, even if they know this will help you to improve your work. This is because, as I said, they themselves are only there to make a buck while they wait for their big break to happen. Do you think they are invested in the students’ success? Try telling them you have placed a short in a festival, or achieved some other validation for your work. I had to pay a script consultant to tell me not to use camera direction in my spec script - something my Writers Boot Camp instructor failed to mention during our script conference. For $8,000+.
It is true that the instructors will never show the students any of their own work. As I said, BE WARY OF POSTING YOUR WORK ONLINE for them and the staff to view. Obviously, they do not trust the students with having samples of their work…so why should the students take that same risk? Try asking them to bring in 30 pages or so from their own work. It won’t happen. They don’t trust YOU with their golden, unsold masterpiece. Again, you will never see their work.
They are not invested in your success, and you put yourself at risk by sharing YOUR OWN step by step work, COMPLETELY UN-PROTECTED, as they encourage you to do. After all, you don’t even know these people - including the other writers you are allowing to have access to your work and developement notes. But the instructors are smart enough to protect themselves, and let you remain ignorant.
Welcome to the ruthless, cutthroat, every man for himself, world of screenwriting.
February 13th, 2007 at 10:56 am
My WBC instructor always calls me from a number that says ID WITHHELD on my phone display. What a nuisance, and offensive. In that case, they should not ask for writers personal phone numbers, and just do everything by email. Who are they, with the attitude that our numbers are subject to exposure, but theirs aren’t? New York, NY.
February 16th, 2007 at 2:05 pm
WBC / THINK TANK UPDATE:
At this point, I’m less than 4 weeks away from wrapping up revisions on my current draft. Six months from start to finish. Next time, my personal goal is to shave that time down to four months without cutting quality.
So what’s next? I’ll have my screenplay copyrighted, then send it off for my story conference. After I send it off, I’ll continue to tweak it and polish it. But no major structural changes. I’ll send it out for analysis and into competition asap. Analysis and competition will provide a good gauge regarding the quality of my work. I’ll share the feedback from my story conference and the analysis in an upcoming post.
The story conference itself is really an analysis. In my last story conference, we went into a lot of detail about my script. We talked quite a bit about the subject matter and the story structure. My analyst had insightful comments about both, and even pointed out specifics in the story and why they worked or didn’t work.
During a story conference, I welcome any constructive criticism; I tend to have hard skin for negative news. I don’t necessarily agree with everything that’s said. My philosophy is this: Give me the good and the bad news, then I’ll make an intelligent decision on what changes need to be made. It’s a give-and-take relationship.
During my story conference, I’ve found it beneficial to employ the “Stephen R. Covey” approach to dialogue: Listen first to understand, then communicate, and then learn. And after learning, take action right away — make those tough changes. If something doesn’t work, go fix it. The business of screenwriting is a tough one. Screenwriters provide a service. And that service has to be exceptional for people to take notice. When you get that first sale, your writing on that script doesn’t end. In fact, it’s just beginning! Get ready for several more revisions, some major!
On final note: WBC is one avenue for screenwriters to hone their craft. The power of the course work is by far in the concepts. It doesn’t mean you can’t and won’t learn from other courses, books, DVD’s, etc. There are all sorts of great options. That said, WBC is an excellent option for me. In just six months, I can see noticeable improvements in my writing and in my approach to writing. I have an arsenal of tools for just about everything from generating ideas and testing them against the market place (before writing a single story word) to creating situations for my characters in order to bring them to life in the readers’ and audience’s minds. Finally, $7,000 / $8,000 are high-end price points. I paid considerably less for the great value I’m getting in return.
Until next time …
February 19th, 2007 at 5:42 am
Question for you, if you don’t mind. I am in LA and was mulling over UCLA extension classes or the WBC. I am interested in doing the online course, mainly due to the fact that I suck in classroom environments. What specific course did you enroll in & do you think that the 6 week online course is beneficial? I have been lucky enough to take some time off of work to devote to screenwriting, so 10 hours a week for me, would probably be closer to 30 or more. Since you took an online course, your feedback has been paramount to me making a choice… I think WBC is the way to go, but like anything, I to have some reservations. Anything else you can offer would be great. How are the online classes, can you watch them more than once…pause them etc. Whats the submission process like, how do the phone calls go. Anything would be great… and thank you for taking us through your journey. It’s a much better guide than people just complaining about no refunds or not seeing their instructors work. My take: I don’t care to see their work, I want to see my own work…completed. On that note, my main concern is structure, I can write scenes, good dialogue, but somewhere the structure gets lost. How do they deal with issues like this, or do they?
Again thank you in advance for your feedback.
February 19th, 2007 at 11:44 am
Adam,
A few questions first. If you don’t mind, could you give me some additional feedback on your screenwriting/writing background? What are your goals, and where are you in terms of your goals? Have you completed any screenplays or submitted any to production companies? What genre(s) are you writing? Do you have a favorite genre? The more details you can provide, the better.
What I’d like to do is give you feedback that not only encompasses WBC but other options as well. It will probably take me at least a few days to prepare a detailed response, since I’m in “deadline mode” right now.
Tom
February 20th, 2007 at 7:13 pm
Tom, Thanks for getting back to me. I actually talked with someone from WBC today, and will probably be signing up for the online basic tomorrow. My screen writing background is very limited. I have worked in TV for almost 10 years, but wanted to move in another direction, mainly the creative end. I have some extremely marketable ideas with great characters, but putting it all together isn’t as easy as I’d hoped. TO make a long story short, I quit my job, moved out to LA and started writing. Of course at first it was more reading than writing, until I started to get the hang of things…to, now… I can open up the computer and write away, but something gets lost in structure. There is that one element which it lacks. What I am looking for from WBC is to gain some structure, not only in story but also in work habits and methodology. From all the write-ups, WBC appears to be that place. As far as goals, immediate and future… now, complete something. I don’t have to be overly proud of it, but I have know that it wouldn’t need a wrecking ball to be re-written. Teeth. Structure & characters would be there, I would have, a story. I believe that once that first draft is done, while rewrites are difficult in their own right, they’re easier to do once you have the structure. Like re-building a car. Although I have never actually rebuilt a car, but I am willing to learn. Maybe.
Future plans… Director/Creator.
All in all, there is a lot of realism on this end, knowing that I wont get to these places without the work. I’m just hoping that WBC is the kick start to effectively guide me in doing it better and with more efficiency.
I don’t think answered all of your questions… Background = virtually none Goals = Lofty, but doable. None completed or submitted. Although one was close, until I started re-writing it. Genre = mainly drama, or darker comedy…overall theme, Man vs. Self. As far as a favorite… not really, in my opinion, if it’s good, it’s good, but at the same time, that’s in regards to a finished film. To give you an idea of what i like.. Last night I saw ‘Pans Labyrinth’. Dark movie, but very well done… again that is a finished product. Script type movies… I really enjoyed ‘Little Miss Sunshine’. I thought it was excellent. Did not like ‘Babel’ at all… way too public service announcement-y for me. Sideways, brilliant… Pulp Fiction, excellent.. etc. So my tastes vary, but like I said, if its good, it’s good. Sometimes directors can make a decent script great, and sometimes directors can make a wonderful script crap. I want my writing to leave guesswork out of it. When you read it, an 8 yr old should be able to direct it. Okay, that’s pushing it.
Sorry I got a little wordy here… we get caught up in our own words sometimes. Get back to me when you can, but I have to say that I after speaking with someone at WBC, I will probably be going with the 6 week online course.
Thanks again, Adam.
February 22nd, 2007 at 1:40 pm
Adam,
Since you’ve already decided on the Basic Course, I’ll take a different approach to my response. First of all, it sounds like you’re on the right track. I certainly commend you for taking the plunge and following your dream.
Now on to your questions!!!
I’m enrolled in the Online Professional Membership (OPM). To some degree, you can decide how long you want to enroll in OPM. I chose 1 year.
I do think the 6 week online course is beneficial. It’ll give you great exposure to the WBC tools, techniques, and modus operandi. Hopefully without putting a too big of a dent in your wallet.
In OPM, you have office hours every week. During these hours, you have roll call where your instructor calls you or vice versa. Generally, it’s tough for me to call from work. Usually, my instructor calls me. Each week, we review a new assignment I’ve completed or a revision to a previous assignment. My instructor discusses the pros and the cons of how I approached the assignment and gives me redirection if necessary. There can a lot of interaction during these sessions; bring questions to ask. In cases where I’ve deviated from the WBC methodology, my instructor explains how and why the methodology works the way it does … in a professional manner. I firmly believe WBC’s focus is to teach you their methodology, and then you can make an informative decision on your own as to what works for you, what works for you with modifications, and what doesn’t work for you period. In a sense, it will become your own customized methodology. And let me stress that these techniques are being used by the pros. But the pros use these techniques effortlessly without giving them names or definitions. Art vs. Science - WBC takes the art of screenwriting (used by the pros) and provides some key parameters to help make it more of a science.
I’m not sure about the Basic Course, but if it’s anything like OPM, you have course materials you can review over and over again until the course ends. Submissions are uploaded through their a special website. In OPM, to submit a script for a conference, you send a hardcopy, more or less, as you would to a prodco.
Ah yes, Structure. WBC has two power topics: Structure and Character Behaviors/Interactions. WBC teaches you the how and the why in reasonable detail (clarifications are provided by instructors), and then you have at it. It doesn’t deal with genre-specific structure or character topics, or advanced structure topics, which I’ll touch on in a bit.
BTW, jumping to another topic, I think the UCLA Extension Classes are excellent if you can afford the price tag. Boy, I need to hit the lottery. Oh, but I digress.
Some Other Structure Options:
If you want to learn genre-specific structure steps, check out John Truby’s website. I have one of his Genre CDs (Horror, Fantasy, Sci Fi) and it’s absolutely brilliant. Well worth the price. He takes you through the genre form, step-by-step, with great movie examples. When you’re done listening, you have a thorough structural understanding of how that genre works, what to do, what not to do, why certain things work, etc. He even teaches you advanced structure topics. Absolutely the best CD I’ve found on screenwriting for a particular genre. Truby leaves no stone unturned.
Another great structure resource: Go to http://www.movieoutline.com, and scroll down. I highly recommend the Movie Outline eBook (PDF file). A great buy for $19.95.
Michael Hauge CreativeScreenwriting Expo DVDs are excellent sources of screenwriting information. Check out the ones that deal with scene construction. Another good one: Paul Gulino’s Sequences: The Hidden Structure of Successful Screenplays.
Well, that’s about all that comes to mind. I do hope your WBC experience is a positive one. Please drop us a line and let us know how it goes, what works for you and what doesn’t, and all that good stuff.
Later, Tom
February 23rd, 2007 at 12:39 pm
Awesome Tom… Thank you & I will stay in touch. I actually stumbled onto this site while googling ‘writers boot camp review’. I had no idea what I was missing… John gives some great advice & tips. It’s nice when people who get ahead try and share some of the techniques and tools that made it possible… You’re that type of person and I wish you well on your journey.
anymore tips that pop into your head, feel free to email…abol73@comcast.net
Take care, -A-
March 2nd, 2007 at 9:08 pm
“It’s very easy to have your ideas stolen, the way they have the structure set up. They encourage you to post your outlines, loglines, and project notes online so the other writers can view it.” [taken from a prior poster]
WOW — is this true? I am an author who has written four screenplays (years ago) and three NYT bestselling biographies, and am now noodling around in Movie Land to try a different genre.
The thought of putting my writing, research, story lines, etc, up on the www for anyone to read is so off putting as to be almost hilarious. Right now, the only people who know what I am working on is my agent, my editor (and they’re paying me), and maybe my mother. And besides, who reads it — the other students? And why could you possibly care what any of them think about your writing? Wow. I guess that is how they do things at WBC but if I were a professional writer (and, um, I am…) I would be extremely leery of doing this.
On another note, I am so grateful for your site John. I had seriously considered taking a course at WBC — had spoken to them and gotten details about courses, pricing — but now, am obviously rethinking.
Thank you — isn’t the internet wonderful? Think of how we are all able to share information and help one another.
(Although I did tell the WBC counselor when he told me about $7,000 tuition… “wow, for that amount of money I would just rent a place on Nantucket and write there for the summer…”)
March 5th, 2007 at 7:33 am
“It’s very easy to have your ideas stolen, the way they have the structure set up. They encourage you to post your outlines, loglines, and project notes online so the other writers can view it.� [taken from a prior poster]
I’m enrolled in WBC and the above statement is supposition. The posting of information is to an internal system at WBC that has password protection and audit/log trails. And it is not accessible by just anyone via the internet. In other words, you can’t GOOGLE the information I have posted on WBC’s internal system.
The thought that other writers at WBC could access your information is pure speculation. To protect your screenplay, really the only way is to have it copyrighted — plain and simple. In Hollywood, the vast majority of the players are on the up and up. Getting caught stealing ideas/work/screenplays is a quick ticket out of the business. In fact, production companies have been known to purchase scripts to secure the intellectual properties legally rather than to risk potential and costly lawsuits. Hope this helps.
Good luck in your writing!
Tom
March 8th, 2007 at 9:51 am
I have taken both the UCLA online courses for a screenwriting certificate and am half way through Think Tank (meet in person in NYC).
UCLA’s courses vary depending on your instructor. Over all though, I had a great experience. The teachers are real working writers and really do know what they are talking about. They can talk about film from every point of view and bring their life experience to the table.
With WBC the instructors have little real world experience. What they are experienced in is teaching the Writer’s Bootcamp methodology. The two instructors I have had were both uncomfortable really discussing the business or writing technique beyond the WBC method.
I don’t care that they don’t show their work. That’s not their job. What I do care about though is their limited experience. I had quite a bit of experience in film development entering the WBC. The Think Tank was sold to me as a professional membership that could accommodate semi professionals and professionals. Unfortunately my teacher’s limited experience, at times, really hinders real professional development.
The Think Tank - Project Group part (which used to be called Peer Group) has you meet every other week. You start with going over the tools you covered in Think Tank, the initial part of the course. So in project group you are working with the same people (for the most part) that you started the course with. Then they introduce new people through out the months. Of course, the instructor then has to spend time catching these folks up to where we are. I do want you all to understand that the classes that meet continue to go over the same tools over and over again, with the same lectures until the class (22 months later) is over. You never read anyone’s screenplays. You only read their tools. For the most part the instructor only comments on your tools. Whether you are doing the tools correctly.
You never discuss idea/concept development from the point of view of “is your idea working.” You only discuss the idea within the framework of the tool. There is very little back and forth discussion.
When it comes time to have your script read by your instructor (you get exactly 4 reads in Think Tank no matter how many scripts you turn in) your instructor forms his comments around the WBC methodology. This is helpful but I do believe it would be more helpful to get real analysis. It is so not the real world - let’s just put it that way.
You will turn in several rewrites that will never get read. You only get 4 reads. That is it. No matter how many scripts or rewrites you turn in. They do not tell you this up front. You learn it once you are in the course.
There are benefits to WBC. I don’t mean to make it sound all bad. It isn’t. In my view its best virtue is the discipline it teaches. I find some of the tools helpful, some a waste of time. I believe the time given for developing a really great script is a little short and unrealistic, but you will do it. Even with rewrites you will need to spend time, once out of the program, fine tuning your scripts. There simply isn’t enough time within the structure of the program to do really “fine” work. But you do write. All the time. And that is its best offering.
Honestly, I think that Think Tank can work for you if you are willing to read a lot of other books about writing, read tons of real world spec scripts, take other courses outside of the Think Tank methodology. It is really important to do this because none of the think tank language can be applied to any real world meeting/situation.
Hope this helps anyone making this important decision.
March 18th, 2007 at 12:18 pm
From their internal website!!!!!
“All enclosed materials, tools and concepts ARE THE PROPERTY OF WRITERS BOOT CAMP, Inc. and Jeffrey Gordon, copyright 2005.”
This REALLY needs to be explained. They never told me this before I signed up!!!!!
March 18th, 2007 at 1:08 pm
It’s the part about all enclosed “concepts” being their “property” that worries me, since they do strongly encourage you to post your ideas and concepts on their internal website for “peer and/or instructor feedback”.
They should cover this “property of Writers Boot Camp, Inc. and Jeffrey Gordon” statement with students BFORE they sign up. If you are considering their (overpriced at $8000) services, PLEASE be sure to ask for clarification on this before you sign your social security number and bank account/credit card information over to these folks.
Most of what they’ve said here about the instructors is also true. Their experience and knowledge isn’t much greater than what most experienced students are already bringing to the table, and there is a sense of them not really believing in the students being successful. Part of this is because the instructors have no real success worth mentioning. Most of their “success” stories are years past, and you see it in their moments of impatience, hostility and frustration. My best advice is to take a pass on this service. You’re paying $8000, but the quality of service and the way you’re dealt with is like you’re paying $800. Here’s an alternative….find a service that only charges, oh, say $800 and will help you finish your script, too.
April 6th, 2007 at 9:59 pm
Tom,
I’m thinking about the WBC online program for a year as well. I’ve read and followed you on your journey through here and I was hoping to ask you a few questions beyond what you have already so graciously shared through your posts. For instance, I can understand why you are keeping your instructor’s name private, however, you seem to be happy with yours and I would be interested to know who it is if I do this program so I could request them if it’s possible since many have said that the instructors are sort of hit or miss. I was also very interested in the form the “classes” take online. I understand you take office hours, but how does the methodology get expressed? Are there videos you can watch or is it reading material? And the assignments, are they specific to your project? I’m assuming they are to a degree, I just wanted to make sure it wasn’t do these assignments that are really just random exercises and then on top of that work on your project. I just wasn’t sure.
Thank you in advance for your time.
April 23rd, 2007 at 7:55 am
In response to April 6th entry:
Sorry I didn’t get back to you sooner. I’ve been busy with a rewrite. Let me respond to your questions.
The methodology is expressed in what WBC calls “tools”. Think of “tools” as a series of “concepts” and “structured documents” that will help you to think about and capture the elements of your story in a consistent and coherent manner. You start with tools that capture the core elements of your story (the foundation) and eventually work with tools that capture more detailed story elements until you have a “blueprint” for writing your scenes.
No videos within lessons. A moderate amount of reading, but not overwhelming. The assignments are 100% specific to your project and will lead to a first or second draft script. No random assignments. Your instructor is key to helping you understanding the tools.
One thing to keep in mind as with anything: With the first project, you will be learning the tools. You will make mistakes, but you learn from them and move on. With the second or even the third project, you will gain a better grasp of tools (new insights) and that will contribute to a better understanding of what it takes to write a great story. And if you are new to screenwriting, I highly recommend checking out other screenwriting websites as well. WBC is not the only way, it’s just one of the ways. Every bit of knowledge helps.
Lastly, I’m ok with giving you my instructor’s name. Just email me at ltengs@aol.com.
Later, Tom
April 23rd, 2007 at 9:17 am
WBC / THINK TANK UPDATE:
This update covers two things: 1) My second Story Conference for my first WBC project 2) Independent analysis done by Coverage Ink
My second Story Conference was with a different person than the first one. The tone of my second conference was different than the first one.
With the first conference, the analyst did not talk about the tools at all. Instead, that analyst reviewed my script in a sort of coverage report format but with a lot more detail.
With the second story conference, the analyst focused on the use of the tools within the scope of my story. Specifically, we discussed all the characters, the opening 10 pages, the first, second, and third acts, and the finale. What did we talk about? Pros and cons, what works, what doesn’t work, what’s missing, etc. The one area we covered lightly was dialogue. But to be truthful, I didn’t ask a lot of questions about dialogue. I was more interested in structure.
My personal opinion: The WBC analyst is not obligated to show you how to fix your script. However, the analyst does give you insights and suggestions on how attack your rewrite. Some might argue that the analyst should show you how to fix your script. I respectfully disagree. This is your story. Nobody knows it better than you. It may be difficult and painful, but you are the single most important person who can and should try to determine and decide how to rewrite and improve your story. That doesn’t mean you don’t need help or shouldn’t get help … at least regarding your script. Just keep in mind, sometimes, letting go of a story that’s not going anywhere may be the best solution. Boy, I really sound like a shrink.
Oh, but I digress. The WBC analyst and I spent most of our time on the characters, the first act, and the second act … a lot more than the other areas I mentioned above. We talked about specific areas that needed tightening up. Total Time: 85 minutes.
Bottom Line: Strong concept, solid writing, but the story is overly complicated. Now you might be thinking: Okay, just take out the stuff that’s complicating the story, and voila. Not so easy. There’s a trickle effect. I can’t just rip things out without assessing the consequences to the rest of the story. I’ll get back to what I’ve done so far, but now let’s jump into my independent story analysis.
I’ve used Coverage Ink in the past, and sent this script for a professional analysis. I trust their work. And they do give general and specific solutions to story problems. In different words than WBC, they said strong concept, solid writing, but the story is too complicated.
Now without divulging my story, I will say that I created the overcomplication myself by trying to make my main character and the story as unique as possible. Basically, I introduced a couple story elements that pretty much knotted up the middle of the script. The problem is I can’t just take those story elements out because then the story becomes rather dull (we’ve seen it before). So what did I do?
I integrated “lessons learned” from WBC, Coverage Ink, and a third source - John Truby. Since my story conference, I’ve reworked the tools from scratch. In about 4 weeks, I’m about to wrap up a complete reworking of all my WBC tools.
My new script will be a page one rewrite of the last one - same title, some of the same characters, completely different story, different angle. The overcomplication problems are gone. And the story is a much better one, consistent with the moral and thematic framework I’m trying to convey. I have no doubt that this script will be significantly better than the last one. And isn’t that what it’s all about.
So what’s next? I took a 7 week break between projects (scripts). That’s right, my break consisted of reworking my tools, and tons of reading and DVD watching on screenwriting. Sometimes, reading or watching a DVD a second or third time gives you insights you missed before. My next project officially starts May 18th. I’ll have a head start. I’ll even have some written pages by then, 20 - 30 hopefully. We’ll see how it goes. Goal: Nicholl Fellowship entry next year.
Oh well, that’s it for now. I’ll let you know how my second project goes as it goes. By the way, this upcoming project will be my last one. I only signed up for two.
Good writing to all!!!
Regards, Tom
May 11th, 2007 at 12:05 pm
WBC / THINK TANK UPDATE:
I’m one week away from the start of my second project with WBC. I’ve re-revised most of my tools. The last two are taking the longest because I’m using them to review character arcs, character relationships, and for making sure my key characters don’t suddenly disappear from my script for long intervals.
On the downside, I had hoped to crank out 20 - 30 pages as I had indicated in my previous post, but that is not to be. Instead, I decided to read through 25 of the 101 Greatest Screenplays as voted on by the WGA. This is the one exercise I’ve neglected, so I’m trying to catch up.
I’ll keep you posted on my second project - the ups and the downs. Good writing to all!
Regards, Tom
June 21st, 2007 at 9:48 am
WBC / THINK TANK UPDATE:
Here’s a brief recap … I finished my first project in March 2007, took about 7 weeks off (still worked on screenwriting), then started on my second project in May 2007. Here’s a summary of project # 2 so far:
Let me start by saying that the first three “tools” are absolutely critical to giving the screenwriter a chance at writing something great. I say “great” because for a new screenwriter, it has to be great to get your foot through the first door. These tools are similar to the techniques that top screenwriting gurus advocate and use.
So after 7 weeks of grinding out these tools and taking screenwriting classes, I turned in my first 3 tools. I thought they were pretty good. I was rather proud of myself. Well, my instructor proceeded to give me a firm but professional version of “This really needs work.” And we went through my tools in great point-by-point detail.
I was upset to say the least. Now, I could have taken the stance “This is my story, and this is how I’m going to write it” OR “You obviously don’t understand my story.” OR “You don’t know what you’re talking about.”
Instead, I took a deep breath (several actually) and a step back. Over the next 3 weeks, my instructor and I debated, talked about my tools, discussed screenwriting techniques, and I reworked the tools. All the while, I was going through an emotional roller coaster of “Is this all worth it?” And the thought of quitting did pop into my head a couple of times. I hate when that happens.
Then during one of our meetings, my instructor said something that really opened my eyes. He said something along the lines of: “I’m not getting the feeling that you have the same passion for this story as you did for your first project.� A slap in the face? No, a kick in the rump.
My Realization: I felt passionate about my story, but that passion wasn’t coming across. Truth be told, I was frustrated. I was wrestling with some critical decisions. Two potential main characters. Plus I hadn’t identified what unique thematic device would bind my story together and really drive it home for an audience, let alone me. I was in Screenwriting Hell.
So I suffered through 1 more excruciating week of revising my 3 tools. Excruciating because I was struggling. And to be honest, I questioned my passion to become a screenwriter.
Then something happened on the night I needed to turn in my tools (Tuesday 6/19). While working on my third tool (a special type of outline), all that thinking, struggling, and hours of worrying came to fruition. I don’t even know how it came to me. But like a light bulb, I got that magical idea … that unique thematic device for my story. And it fits perfectly!
All the sudden, like pieces of a puzzle falling into place, my story has come together. I can envision a movie from start to finish in detail. And I have unique moments and character interactions throughout the story that I can test against existing movies and honestly say, “This is something we haven’t seen before.� It really feels miraculous. And I now have a new surge of motivation.
The passion is back!!!
Regards, Tom
P.S. After my instructor reviewed my tools on Wednesday 6/20, he gave me a lot of praise for the turnaround. I’m glad he pushed me to do my best work. Lesson Relearned – Be open to constructive criticism. As prideful creatures, we screenwriters can sometimes put our work on a pedestal before it deserves to be there.
July 7th, 2007 at 6:30 am
Last year I offered limited kudos to WBC. But I have dropped out of the OPM program and am now in a one to one mentoring situation with a real live screenwriter. He makes a lot more sense. The WBC tools, which are nothing really new if you read enough, had me tied in story knots. The harder I tried with their “tools” the more confused I became. Their premise line, for example, is not what the movie industry thinks of a premise line–it’s a giant run on sentence that trashes grammar and context. In my new situation, my instructor has had me do one short sentence per movie idea, then two or three paragraphs per movie idea, and then has had me break down two or three movies into beat sheets. He’s very proactive with an organized plan. The WBC instructors I had did not spend any time on concept development or on determining whether it was a good idea or not. Basically, we just talked about the tools. Also, when I challenged some of them, the subject was deftly switched to me. It’s a program that will get you to write, however.
July 23rd, 2007 at 4:05 am
I am currently enrolled in Think Tank. I’ve finished my first 12 weeks, which was actually only 10 weeks because I missed 2 classes because of errors on their part. I am now in Project Group and I’ve missed one class with my instructor because he didn’t show up and we blended with another class. I’ve still not heard from my instructor regarding my first draft. He has never once responded to any of my calls or emails. I can only think that my writing must be such crap that he’s avoiding discussing it with me, even though he asked me to call him so that we could set up a meeting, which I’ve done three times even though it’s his responsibility to arrange it. I’ve never had any response from him. At this point I’m feeling very discouraged and wondering if it’s even worthwhile to continue attending even though I know that I will still have to pay in full. If I’m being completely ignored and getting the runaround from admin, what’t the point?
Every email I’ve received from the admin people has always been followed up by another email correcting the information in the first email. This is very confusing and I would always call the office to clarify, but I won’t bother with that anymore because the people who answer the phone are very rude and unprofessional, saying things like “Well, if you’d bothered to read the email that was sent out…” I’m guessing that the admin staff must be interns or people in the program who are doing some sort of work study. I’m very discouraged and overall I feel that while I’ve learned some helpful methods and tools that make sense to me, I’m not getting any support or feedback at all. That was the most important reason that I enrolled. It was a lot of money for me, but I wanted to make sure I was doing everything I could to support myself in this endeavor. I wanted to give myself every chance to succeed. Maybe my writing is such crap, it’s hopeless. I don’t know what to think anymore.
I am embarrassed to share with anyone what’s going on because now I feel stupid for enrolling. I feel naive and that I was kidding myself for pursuing my writing goals. I don’t envision myself walking on a red carpet or receiving awards. I don’t even know if I would like to “work in Hollywood”. I’ve always been writing and I wanted to work with a professional group who would support me and from whom I could learn workable methodology so that I could know that I was writing in a professional manner on a professional level.
I don’t think I will be going back. I can’t stop myself from writing. I have to get the ideas out of my head and onto paper. Even if no one else reads the pages. Even if everything I write is complete crap.
July 23rd, 2007 at 9:11 am
Disappointed:
You should NOT feel embarassed about sharing your experiences. Your situation is definitely unfortunate. I would suggest contacting the person who signed you up, express your concerns with specific examples as you noted above, and ask about options. Perhaps switching to a different instructor would be helpful. WBC definitely has many pros and like anything else, it has it’s cons. I definitely haven’t experienced the sort of issues you have had to face.
If you love writing, then stick with it. WBC isn’t necessarily a representation of Hollywood. And actually, Hollywood is like other workplaces in many ways, but in particular, you have to take the good with the bad. Keep a positive attitude, and also develop a strong chin. You’ll take a lot of hits as you climb up the sreenwriting ladder. Try to bounce back, and it sounds like are. Best of luck writing.
Also, out of curiosity, are you in the LA or NY class?
Regards, Tom
July 23rd, 2007 at 2:36 pm
Dear Disappointed: Please don’t quit writing. I, too, felt tied in knots and frustrated by WBC. The lack of meaningful feedback angered me. If you read my comment above, I found a new situation with a professional instructor who is inspiring and organized. WBC knows and teaches their system, which is fine for the people who like it–but like Car Jung said: There are 360 ways to the center of the circle.” Keep writing.
July 23rd, 2007 at 7:02 pm
Oh, my gosh! Thank you all for your timely responses. I’ve had such a bizarre experience with WBC, sometimes I feel as if I’m being pranked. When I did call the person who signed me up I was told that he was no longer with WBC. I managed to get through the rude gatekeepers when I called and someone who’d taken over the accounts of the person who signed me up did call me back. He only wanted to know my new credit card information as my card will be expiring soon.
I am getting all sorts of opinions and conjecture on “the business” from all sides. Some say that everything is going to the small screen, the tiny screen, and the itty-bitty screen. Other people are saying that the big studios aren’t even reading scripts any more, just ordering blockbusters or pre-branded stories like stuff based on cartoons or books. Maybe that’s why this is the summer of the 3’s. I don’t know. I don’t care, really. I just want to learn to write and to know if I’m complete crap or not. Do I even have any talent? I hope so because writing is somewhat of a compulsion. I know that talent isn’t enough. I know that I need to understand structure and to be able to deliver in a timely manner. I wouldn’t want to be one of those people that take 10 years to write a second act. I recognize the need for business acumen also. I don’t want to be one of those annoying people who wander around in a daze asking everyone how to get an agent.
I just feel that I’ve been treated rudely and unprofessionally. In any other area of my life if someone was so blatantly ignoring me I wouldn’t pursue it. Obviously they don’t think enough of me to treat me with common respect, and also obviously based on their behavior, this is not someone I would want in my life. But dammit, I’m paying these people $300 a month and they agreed to give me professional coverage and feedback on my work. I’ve done everything as instructed. The only classes I’ve missed were the very first class because of one of those lame admin email snafu’s and then the last class of the 12 week course, also because of wrong information given to me at the door. I traveled all the way to class only to be told there were no classes that night because of a seminar, which turned out to not be true.
I will be seeing my instructor this week at class. I don’t know what to do. I’m afraid that I’m so angry I might cause a scene. If he was a guy I was dating or a stupid co-worker, I would know exactly how to handle this situation. Now, I’m afraid that I might unleash the bitch within and embarrass myself.
You are all so kind and helpful. I am looking into other options. I met Karl Iglesias and Pilar Alessandra at Expo last year. I respect both of them and they are so approachable. I am looking into what they have to offer. I’ve also been attending Screenplay Lab the last two Sundays. I don’t know that Robin and Gabrielle can mentor me, but I like the group and the speakers are great. Oh, I guess you can tell I’m in LA.
I hate to be such a poop. Next time I post I will make sure I have good news.
July 24th, 2007 at 2:10 am
Dear Disappointed: I don’ know if it’s appropriate to make a specific recommendation or not but I don’t care. Look at the Scriptwriter Central website and contact Derek Rydall author of I Could’ve Written a Better Movie than That and the Enlightened Entertainer. He was a major help to me when I was feeling what you are feeling. Writing is tough enough without having these experiences. Also, don’t listen to anyone who’s discouraging you by telling you what’s selling and what’s not. They don’t know. WBC discouraged me from reading other books but that didn’t stop me. Two quotes I remember. One from William Goldman about Hollywood–”no one knows anything” and one from Viki King: “Don’t worry about what they’re looking for, they don’t know what they’re looking for.” I’d suggest you read, read, read. One thing about screenwriting is that there are a lot of books.
July 24th, 2007 at 4:59 pm
Thank you, Robert. I’m going to check that out and get back to everyone.
July 27th, 2007 at 9:00 am
WBC / THINK TANK UPDATE:
I’m 2 1/2 months into my second 6-month project. So far things have progressed very well. I’ve been working and re-working and re-working several tools, leading to a detailed outline. I don’t mind the re-working. I’ve read over and over that some screenplays by A-List scribes were re-written a dozen times before they became movies.
I really like working with my instructor, because it’s like having a writing partner who’s actually in the industry. At least that’s how I view our relationship. And by “in the industry”, I mean that my instructor has been in numerous feature films and understands how to critique a screenplay from the perspective of studio readers, actors, directors, etc. I can honestly say “my writing partnerâ€? so to speak has suggested some brilliant ideas that I have incorporated into my story. Ideas that truly bring out the richness of the theme and the characters.
And we have great conversations about movies, scene techniques, emotional throughlines. It’s not strictly limited to the tools.
Last week, my instructor raised an issue about a key plot point in my story. I was concerned, because I felt very strongly about this particular plot point. So I explained it in more detail, more than what was written in the tool I had submitted. And it made sense. These sorts of interactions happen all the time. The tools are a vehicle for conveying information, but sometimes they need a little “human� help. This is something I started to realize with my first project.
In talking about my story through the tools, my instructor is now able to visualize my characters and their scenes, which means the story is coming to life. It already has for me. But when someone else sees “ITâ€?, that’s always a good sign.
My main tool revisions right now involve more clearly expressing the characters’ emotional throughline. Right now, my tools come across as a little too plot-driven. And I can see that. That’s not to say that I haven’t thought about the emotional aspect, or wouldn’t think about it if I jumped into a draft head first. The emotional core is vital, because it’s like the engine for your story. You’ve got to make sure it starts up properly, keeps running, and gets the audience to a great destination.
By focusing on the emotional throughline, I’ve come up with an opening (start your engines) that has greater emotional impact and depth, and hopefully everything after that will fall in place. I’m confident it will. Like pieces of a big puzzle. The question is where to start and where to finish.
Until next time, good writing to all!!
Regards, Tom
July 31st, 2007 at 6:45 am
Finding this board was a godsend, as there’s little critical review of the WBC deployment anywhere. I was perched to send my app & the discussion here pulled me back from what appears to me an unnecessary fall into a negatively exclusive environ.
Has anyone taken the online UCLA Professional Screenwriting Course (3 quarters)? What particular class or counsul resources for have others found affordable and valid? I’m checking out some of the names mentioned here.
Thanks!
August 7th, 2007 at 2:06 pm
LA Writer is right. There’s not a lot out there on WBC - good or bad. But what little I could find is generally positive. I tried but couldn’t find any Better Business Bureau complaints or any really negative comments.
You may find the links below helpful. Some of it is perspective from other writers outside this blog, some is just information. I looked for any and all websites. In fact, one of my Google search strings was “writers boot camp bad”, which gave me the first link.
http://thinkingwriter.com/?p=127
http://www.imdb.com/Indie/Ask/20040705.html
http://screenwriters.meetup.com/23/boards/view/viewthread?thread=1539391
http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/film/2007/03/ladiary4writersboot_camp.html
http://www.fox.com/diversity/submit.htm
http://www.donedealpro.com/members/details.aspx?objectid=226&contenttype=1
http://www.writersstore.com/products.php?searchkeywords=Writers%20Boot%20Camp&categoriesid=
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendID=64244201
August 24th, 2007 at 1:57 pm
WBC / THINK TANK UPDATE:
I just met with my instructor after a three week break:
1) Week 1: Vacation, lots of biking and hiking, campfires, swimming at the lake. I spent some time brainstorming about my screenplay, but didn’t have access to a computer. Net Result: Minimal work was done.
2) Week 2: Got back from vacation, had no new materials to review.
3) Week 3: I was so swamped, I couldn’t meet up with my instructor.
I was worried three weeks would throw me way behind. But as it turns out, all is well, and I’m caught up.
My instructor believes wholeheartedly in getting things right before diving into the first draft. In our past few meetings, we’ve focused on character arcs, emotional throughlines, and relationships - specific to my screenplay, in order to turn out a commercial product that will attract producers, directors, and actors.
The other nice thing: My instructor is genuinely excited about the way my story is progressing.
So while WBC does emphasize the importance of their six-month timeline, the instructor makes a judgment call with the student on just how fast or slow to proceed. I kind of like that.
As a result, what’s happening for me is a strengthening of my story via WBC’s story-building and story-structuring tools. And while I haven’t started to pen the first draft in earnest, I’ve already done several visual and structural rewrites of the storyline … in my head. In fact, I have a living, breathing movie in my noggin’, and I can clearly play it from start to finish, rewind it, even change it on the fly. Kind of cool.
When my instructor and I next touch base, we’ll firm up the story. Then I’ll proceed with the first draft. Right now, I’m three months into my second six month project that runs to the end of November. I have enough time for a first draft and one or two actual rewrites. Then I’m done. I only signed up for the minimum of two projects - twelve months total, fourteen month’s if you count my extened break between projects.
One thing to note: In working with my instructor, we talk a lot about movies, specific screenplays, sound screenwriting techniques, and good approaches to story-telling. That’s on top of focusing on specific elements of my story, both within the context of the tools and outside the tools. Sometimes, we just talk about the elements of good story-telling — something that’s universal, regardless of the tool, approach, or software.
Well, that’s it for now. If anyone has any comments or questions, please let me know. I will try to respond as soon as possible. I check this site almost every day.
Until next time, good writing to all!!
Regards, Tom
August 25th, 2007 at 11:03 pm
Thinking of the 22 month program also but leery of the emphasis on their tools.
Honestly, their idea of a premise line was so assinine I hope that’s not a reflection of the other tools.
Do you have any idea how many people are in the online component? I understand this is fairly new, just launched last year?
Thanks for this site. Everyone’s comments are thought-provoking.
August 26th, 2007 at 7:41 pm
Rob,
I’m really not sure how many people are enrolled online. There are at least 2 instructors. If I had to guess, I’d say about 60 students total (30 per instructor) at any given time; I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s more. I believe its was launched about 18 month ago, so it is fairly new.
I think the premise line has gotten a bad rap. If you’ve got negative vibes about that already, I don’t think the other tools are going to be any better for you. You’re probably better off looking at another option — one that you feel strongly about and can commit to. That’s really one of the keys for success whether you choose WBC or any other program. The reason WBC works for me is because I believe in it, have patience in the writing process, and I see results every week. It’s definitely not for everyone.
Best of luck!
Regards, Tom
August 26th, 2007 at 7:55 pm
Tom,
One more question: you haven’t written a draft yet? I understand you signed for a year. Isn’t the goal one draft every six months? Or not?
That’s the one thing I find appealing about the 22 month program, writing 4 drafts.
August 28th, 2007 at 9:05 am
Rob,
That’s right. I signed up for 1 year, 2 projects (screenplays), 6 months per project. For my first six month project, I completed one draft. At that point, I talked to my instructor about two options for my second project:
1) Continue revising my first screenplay.
2) Start a completely new screenplay.
In a 22 month program, the goal is to write 4 drafts. But you could opt to write 3 or even 2. It’s really up to you.
The reality is the average student will get one good draft done every 6 months, but it won’t be a finished screenplay and will need additional revisions. Someone who already has screenwriting experience under his/her belt could conceivably complete a “market-ready” screenplay in 6 months.
Please note: I decided to write two separate screenplays for my projects to get some repetition with the WBC techniques/tools. The first time through, you definitely learn a lot. But the second time around, having been through it before, you understand so much more. And I’m sure if I had signed up for a third project, I’d pick up even more, but that was a financial decision.
Hope this helps.
Later, Tom
September 1st, 2007 at 6:10 am
WBC / THINK TANK UPDATE:
So now what? I just started to write my second script (project 2) on Wednesday, 8/29. Actual draft pages at long last.
But I’m writing the last 10 pages first! Why? It’s based on the concept that it’s vital to know your destination before you lay out the map (e.g. the rest of the script). And besides, it’s working for me. Already, it’s helped me to identify character and plot elements that must be revealed and foreshadowed earlier in my script.
The other nice thing: Thanks to the work and re-work put into the tools, my characters are fully fleshed out. They’re living, breathing entities in their own world. And the story is practically writing itself.
Best of all, the words that are landing on the page are actually the quality of a third or fourth revision. That’s probably because I’ve rehearsed this final scene in my head at least a hundred times and put that story content into my tools. I think that’s the true potential of the tools if they’re used properly.
Well, back to writing.
Regards, Tom
September 5th, 2007 at 2:04 pm
WBC / THINK TANK UPDATE:
First draft of final sequence completed. About 13 pages. I received very positive feedback from my instructor, who stressed both strong points and areas to improve. No major structural or quality issues, thank goodness.
Bottom line: The final sequence has legs to stand on. It’s poised to give the audience positive vibes, and there are some memorable character moments. Character dymanics and dialogue are points of refinement, but nothing severe.
Next Step: Write first draft for one or two more key sequences. Don’t worry about revising Sequence 12 right now, but do take notes for future Sequence 12 revisions. Writing these other key sequences will further shape and solidify Sequence 12, which is by no means done.
In the next couple weeks, the goal is to draft the 4 most important sequences in the screenplay (in any screenplay) as a backbone for the rest of the story, in the process, utilizing nonlinear writing techniques.
These 4 key sequences are the “signposts” for linking the beginning, middle, and end of the story into a coherent whole. Of course, I’ve just oversimplified the entire process, but you get the picture.
Please keep in mind that this nonlinear writing approach I’ve just described is something I’m testing the waters with. I definitely like the flow of the process. I’m NOT advocating that it’s the best approach for all scripts, nor am I advocating that it’s the best approach for all screenwriters. However, for me, right now, for this story, it is paving the way for some very productive writing.
Anyway, that’s all for now. Any questions, please let me know. Until next time, good writing to all.
Regards, Tom
September 13th, 2007 at 12:36 pm
WBC / THINK TANK UPDATE:
Another week of writing. Here’s a Project 2 “draft” recap:
1) I drafted my final ~10 pages first. I don’t think there will be major changes to this part. And if there are, that’s fine. That’s what screenwriting is all about — rewriting and rewriting, dozens of times if necessary.
2) I drafted ~10 pages from the middle of my script, representing a key sequence. I think this will undergo significant changes, because there are a number of variables in other parts of the script that I’m still working out.
3) I’m now drafting the first 10 pages. This is going well. I’m working in some nice character moments. There’s tension. And we have a reason to root for the main character.
At this point, the dialogue is good, but definitely needs to be re-worked. This will benefit from a dialogue pass later.
In a couple weeks, I’ll have the first ~10 pages (sequence 1), the last ~10 pages (sequence n), and ~30 middle pages (sequences x, y, and z). Again, these are the most important sequences in my script and perhaps in any script. These sequences will form the foundation of the script. Everything else builds to these key sequences.
This might seem like a lot of jumping around. But what it actually does is keep you writing — any part, any time. So you don’t get stuck writing in any particular order. Keep moving, keep writing. Never stand still. Hey, it really is like boot camp.
Also, each sequence has gotten me to think of things to include either before or after that sequence. So I’m actually doing my own analysis and compiling notes as I write. Hmmm, maybe I should charge myself.
If you’re reading this and you’re enrolled in WBC, please share your experiences. Or if you’re considering WBC and have any questions, let me know. I’ll do my best to answer them.
Well, that’s it for now. Good writing to all!
Regards, Tom
September 18th, 2007 at 11:50 pm
In response to Tom Eng’s August 7th post, there actually are a couple of complaints against Writers Boot Camp in the Better Business Bureau, http://www.labbb.org/BBBWeb/Forms/Business/CompanyReportPage_Expository.aspx?CompanyID=13150237
September 19th, 2007 at 2:56 pm
Writer,
Nice find! I checked out the BBB site. I only wish you could see the details of the complaints.
Regards, Tom
September 20th, 2007 at 5:05 pm
LA WRITER — UCLA ONLINE
I found that most of the instructors for the UCLA online scriptwriting courses were wonderful. They were also real professionals in the industry. The format for most classes is very open — and not as “driven” as say, WBC.
I highly recommend their classes.
September 20th, 2007 at 5:34 pm
Writer’s Bootcamp –> Think Tank –> Project Groups
I am almost finished with my 22 months in the WBC Think Tank / Project Group. I have one month left.
I’ll try to give some organization to my thoughts on WBC….
Did I like it?
– I liked being with other writers every week and then every other week once we went into our project group. Many of the people were interesting, and somewhat surprisingly good writers.
But did you like W