Comments on: Stressing over structure

By: MikeO

MikeO — Tue, 26 Feb 2008 11:03:05 +0000

What you just described is still a structure there, John - bones or no bones, chicken or snake.

It's pretty dismaying when established writers pooh pooh this stuff because they've managed to crack it, can write naturally because they know it and somehow it becomes so second nature and invisible they think they've dismissed it altogether! I think it is important to learn structure and why it's important, get it (like a lightbulb goes off in your head or some such cliche, but it's true) but keep writing so much that one day it becomes second nature and you stop worrying about it.

Then John can start to worry as there's more good competition out there :)

By: chris vandijk

chris vandijk — Fri, 06 Apr 2007 16:58:15 +0000

Dear God, thank you. I have been putting my soul into this script and it’s become so important to me, more so than anything else I’ve written, and it is the first time I’ve tried to really stick to the “structure” of it. I wanted to throw the whole thing in the Hudson River. I felt like I was cramming scenes in places they did not belong, just to hit a certain goal. So, I started using your skeleton idea and it’s all working. Thank you, thank you, thank you!

By: Richard Rapp

Richard Rapp — Wed, 04 Apr 2007 18:12:17 +0000

I thought cockroaches didn't have skeletons.

Freaking fantastic site. You've helped me out in many ways and this thread is no different. I did kind of get it on my own after many years of studying scripts and theories, but you're explanation summed it all up.

By: S. A. Petrich

S. A. Petrich — Sun, 30 Jul 2006 19:32:03 +0000

I think I am writing an octopus.

By: Stephen Groak

Stephen Groak — Thu, 11 May 2006 22:16:14 +0000

The skeleton is finally out of the screenplay. Thanks.

By: Dave

Dave — Wed, 03 May 2006 03:13:46 +0000

While I agree with what you say, I think it's a dangerous comment for beginning writers. Heck, it's a dangerous comment for experienced (though perhaps not professional) writers.

Somebody had said that there is a rhythm to stories, and I think that's accurate. However, if you don't read, write, learn about stories and what makes them work (or not work), then you're more apt to fail and become discouraged.

Perhaps one of the benefits of writing for Hollywood is that you do get a ton of feedback and a crash course in discussions of story.

While I like the skeleton metaphor, I would ask, do you think that Hollywood is primarily interested in certain kinds of skeletons? :)

I believe that's where much of the formula applies. If you want to write a script without rules, doing whatever you please, you are free to do so; however, the further you stray from what Chris Vogler calls the fairytale structure, the less Hollywood is interested.

Also, while many professionals enjoy tossing the rules aside, it's not wise for newcomers to follow suit without knowing what the rules are and why they exist in the first place.

By: Jon B.

Jon B. — Mon, 27 Feb 2006 20:40:58 +0000

Your skeleton analogy is one of the best explanations of structure that I've heard in a long time...can I use that? ha ha

Seriously though, well put, my friend. Too much formula can be bad, but as we saw with "Million Dollar Baby" last year, it can also be very good. What matters in the end is whether or not "it works".

thanks :)

By: jackie

jackie — Wed, 17 Aug 2005 08:01:30 +0000

I liked this metaphor too, build your own skeleton… It actually reminds me of this book I just read SCREENWRITING: THE SEQUENCE APPROACH (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0826415687/qid=1124265408/sr=1-2/ref=sr_1_2/104-4577026-6827130?v=glance&s=books) While I know that John was plagued by complicated/annoying “sequence” methods at USC, this book guides you with what you should be thinking about to make your own structure, or skeleton. I too am not writing chinatown, and this book helped me keep a little structure so my script wouldn’t end up…well, spineless.

By: mark

mark — Tue, 24 May 2005 20:34:34 +0000

I like the skeleton metaphor. I think your story, once you know what it is, will dictate its own structure/skeleton. Certain conventions still hold true (for the most part, the old 3 act structure is useful), but a lot of it is bunk written by failed screenwriters. I have a dozen or so screenwriting how-to books on my shelf, only one I’d ever recommend to people. It’s called “Screenwriting Tricks of the trade” by Froug. It’s also the shortest! Read it. It’s excellent.

By: Mike

Mike — Wed, 03 Nov 2004 19:05:21 +0000

Hmmm.... this is really unconventional advice - most books say you're supposed to introduce your metaphor in the first paragraph.

Seriously. Sound advice (as always from the site). It's 2004 already, can we stop holding Chinatown up as the end-all be-all of story structure?

By: Frank

Frank — Mon, 25 Oct 2004 08:45:12 +0000

My new project has the skeleton of a snake!

If you get stuck and your story doesn't flow nicely then you might wanna check out the hero's journey - very useful. THE WRITER'S JOURNEY book has a very helpful explaination.